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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Hitcher" data-source="post: 6310292" data-attributes="member: 63747">@<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a>: I'm not in the business of telling people what their subjective experience is. I think it's great that people are being imaginative and experimental within the 4E system (and having fun doing it), but I but think the system tends to discourage it. Note that I've specifically been talking about the combat system. I'm far less concerned about the out-of-combat action resolution, and in fact I think it's most likely better than any that came before. However, I do feel that those systems are vastly overshadowed by the combat mechanics, which is what most of the page-count and (in my experience) game time is taken up with. (To the point where most of the Powers don't even make sense outside the context of a battlemat.)In regards to your preference for the out-of-combat mechanics of 4E over the 5E playtest, I honestly don't see a great deal of difference between the two. I wouldn't be surprised if we see an optional Skill Challenge system in the DMG. But generally speaking, a check is a check in either edition. I think you may be surprised by how much discussion and how many options there are around check resolution in the core books. Mearls has talked about optionally making use of storygame mechanics (like "fail forward", for example), and I'd expect some discussion of these kinds of options in the DMG. D&D will never be Burning Wheel (a game which I adore, by the way), but I expect that it won't be hard to bring a few rules in to strongly encourage story-making play. @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6688277" target="_blank">Sadras</a>: Good call! Majoru's play seems to be affected by the core systems in the same way as mine was, except that it doesn't seem to bother him/her. Which is fine - different people have different fun. But my expectation is that more people end up playing this way than the way Ruin Explorer and permerton's groups play. No way to prove that conclusively, unfortunately. @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=18" target="_blank">Ruin Explorer</a>: That wasn't the conclusion that I (and a number of others) came to. Yes, an archer rogue is going to be inferior pound-for-pound during ordinary combat rounds, but their stealth skills mean they can get the drop on sentries or stragglers and take them out (potentially in a single shot). If you look at their effectiveness outside the bounds of the 4E-style enclosed encounter, a rogue should easily hold their own.</blockquote>

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