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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6310336" data-attributes="member: 18">The topic is purely about Rogue archers, not Rogues in general. Archer Rogues are inferior at doing damage during combat after level 4, by anywhere between 11% and 31% (or a bit more if we factor in overkill and occasional lack of SA). They also have less on-paper survivability (a great deal less, even with Evasion factored in) and control, but as Mistwell points out, if the player is crafty enough and DM agreeable, they may find it easier to pull off spectacular improvised not-on-paper actions, and to prevent themselves being a viable target at all by hiding. That's non-quantifiable, and doesn't directly relate to archery, by and large.The repeated assertions about being  better at killing sentries are in error post-level-4, repeating them does not change that. Due to high stealth skills, Rogue archers may have an easier time approaching sentries, but must get within 30ft to use SA/Assasination. Assuming both are using longbows (as we must, for the Rogue is specifically an Elf, and the Fighter would be silly not to), then the Fighter only needs to get within 150ft. If the Fighter also has the Archery Master Feat, he only needs to get within 600ft. The Rogue must still get to 30ft, regardless of whether he has that Feat (though it is still helpful for ignoring cover etc.). So the Fighter's Stealth check will be much easier, if he even has to make a check at all.If the terrain is such that you literally cannot take a shot from more 30ft away, that definitely helps the Rogue, but an Archer Fighter wearing armour which doesn't Disadvantage Stealth and with the Stealth skill will have a good chance to be fine.The Rogue will use Assassinate (for we assume he is an Assassin Rogue), and SA, because why wouldn't you, and has one attack roll (at Advantage, though, thankfully), where, if he misses, the sentry is probably screaming bloody murder, if not, hopefully he's dead, but it depends very much on what level he is.If there are two guards, the Rogue is screwed, sadly, unless they can't see each other, and the DM kindly rules that your attack killed one without causing a commotion (so this relies largely on DM co-operation and player persuasiveness).The Fighter will use his normal attack action (with Advantage), so gets 2-4 attacks (depending on level - I'm assuming above 4 because I don't contest this below that) and then, if the target(s) are still standing, he uses Action Surge to get another attack action (which gives him the same number of attacks again), still at Advantage. On average, all this together will inflict more damage than even a successful Assassinate - and if the enemies are very weak, he may be able to kill more than one guard before they can react, something the Rogue cannot do unless the DM allows him to by co-operating.The sum total of this is that the Rogue has a certain chance to kill a single opponent, and that's cool, but the Fighter has a greater chance to kill the same opponent (all things considered), and can potentially kill or injure further targets. If you want I can show all the math and so on - you can pick a level, I'm not doing a spreadsheet! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Now, if you want to say "Well, what if the Rogue sneaks up and pushes a boulder on top of them or something?". Well, sure, but that's outside the scope of the original question, which was specifically about how good Archer Rogues were, because archery is in no way involved. Improvised actions might well benefit either - they depend more on the personality and creativity of the players, and the co-operation level of the DM. An adversarial DM will cut improvised stuff to minimal effectiveness, a highly collaborative one might boost it to the point where it's silly to use actual abilities! (which is probably fine).If we were to change the question to "can a Rogue be a decent sniper in 5E?" the answer is a resounding: NO! Rogue damage only works within 30ft. If you want to snipe in 5E, you want to be a Fighter.If you want to be a very deadly ranged Rogue, you don't actually want to be an archer, either, you want to have Throwing Weapon Mastery (the Feat), because it lets you dual-wield throw, which means that if either of your attacks lands, you get your Assassinate-SA, and which brings you closer to the Fighter (but as you have Advantage it's not as big a factor as if you didn't).I'm not sure what you mean re: stragglers - if you mean fleeing enemies, then no, a Rogue isn't better, indeed he's much worse off, because of the 30ft requirement (which many fleeing enemies will be beyond), whereas if you mean picking off the guy at the back of a column or whatever without alerting the rest, then that's a matter of DM co-operation again.As for which is the better CHARACTER, over the whole adventure or whatever? Obviously there is no way to say. I'd be unsurprised if the Rogue came out ahead in a lot of adventures as a CHARACTER, looking at all three "pillars" and so on, but as an archer? He's inferior even in his area of speciality, after level 5 (before that he is superior).EDIT - If you want me to run the math for you, I need the following parameters - the level of PCs, who/what the sentry or sentries are (pref. from the October bestiary), and the general encounter scenario.I will likely provide alternate scenarios, of course, but I'm not even going to get into this unless there is interest!LATER EDIT - I'm wrong re: 30ft, they removed that! Yay!</blockquote>

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