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Message: <blockquote data-quote="stevelabny" data-source="post: 2363323" data-attributes="member: 9298">As a whole, people who talk about comic books over-use the word continuity and I wind up adding to that myself. I'll try to clarify by giving some definitons as to how I will try to use words.Continuity- keeping faithful to what has previously happened to your character or team, and not just changing things with no explanation.  (Can't come back from the dead, switch sides, or ignore events of the past without an explanation) Interconnectedness- making the books like they take part in the same universe. (If a former villain is trying to rehabilitate himself in one book, he can't be used as a villain elsewhere. If Asgard floats above NYC in Thor, it floats above NYC in Spider-man)So while Claremont and David might have left books because of problems related to interconnectedness, it isn't the interconnectedness itself thats the problem. It was the editorial OVER-USE of these things. There are tons of reasons to have characters exist in a shared universe. There are zero reasons to have multi-title crossovers every three months.Also, many fans have said they prefer cross-overs to be contained within one book only (if spidey and DD team up, let it happen in one story arc in either book, dont ask people to read both books)  but very few crossovers have ever asked people to read more than 4 titles, and most of those were in a "family of books" like the Spidey-books, Bat-books or X-books. and no crossover has ever FORCED people to do anything.No. he got a pass that another writer couldn't because he is JOSS WHEDON. Just like a veteran writer will be trusted with bigger more convoluted stories than a new writer.  Austen wasn't just a rookie, but Joss isn't just a veteran writer either. He's a geek-god.  He brought Colossus back, and he did it so well, that it worked, and there have been very few complaints about it. Would Austen have been able to do the same?Except that this is just a retcon. Well-done retcons don't ignore or invalidate continuity. A well-done retcon fits seamlessly into a character's past and just adds a previously unknown bit to the past. This is done in almost all episodic stories.  This particular retcon has a never explored Gwen trip to Europe, and would have been fine if Norman had raped her. Instead, it gets ridiculed because it completely goes against Gwen's character.  There is a difference.I haven't read all of Excalibur yet, but didn't they say that the drug-addict Magneto was a fake?  As chessy as a fake might be, it is no worse writing than making Magneto into a weak-minded drug addict in the first place.  But this one is funny. I didn't know anyone ever took Wizard seriously. But here's a good reason not to. Since Shooter left a few years before the speculator boom where Spider-man #1 and X-Force #1 sold millions, and X-Men #1 sold SEVEN million. This has to be wrong. Total net sales of what title? Or is that an average of all the titles? And is a particular one title or handful of titles that are throwing averages out of whack? These numbers are very incomplete. Also, for dollar numbers, you have to take the quantity of titles sold and cover prices into account. Comics as a whole have taken a slight uptick over the past year after taking a severe beating since the speculator-boom.  compare q1 2005 to q1 1995 or 1985. the current numbers are embarassing compared to everything EXCEPT last year. Also, when I talk about Marvel being in trouble, I'm talking specifically about the COMICS. Business reports will tell you how sucessful Marvel has become but that is completely based on the movie and merchandising deals. The comics-part of the company isn't doing very well. and the monthly comics in particular (excluding TPBs) are really not doing well. Marvel is treating the comics as a secondary business to find more properties for movies and tv. Just look at the current New Warriors series. Is this an attempt at a comic book? Or hoping they can get an off to put new warriors go! on tv?Certain things that Marvel is doing are short-team sales boosters only. Returning to the alternate cover gimmick? Yikes. Didn't this spell disaster the first time?Having Wolverine and Spider-man in the Avengers?  Eventually they'll bring back the REAL Avengers and there will be a sales spike again, but after weakening the teams image, how will they be able to survive long term?  But in the meanwhile, tick off people who think these two are over-exposed.The Ultimate Universe as a continuity light alternative?Oops.  So much for thast idea.  It adds more confusion and splits sales.House of M? Another alternate reality.That will bleed over partly into the MUTo make continuity more confusing in an attempt to make it simpler.Maybe they can dig up a few more gimmicks from the 90s.</blockquote>

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