Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Janx" data-source="post: 4772100" data-attributes="member: 8835">It's a good question.Part of the problem with Charisma, barring game rules that force using it, is that for the basic premise of the game, killing monsters and taking their stuff, speaking well and looking good aren't too useful towards that goal.  Whereas strength, Dex, Con, Int, Wisdom all have in combat uses, especially strength, Dex and Con.  Since you expect to spend more time in combat (or can solve most problems by setting it on fire or hitting it repeatedly), Charisma gets ignored.The other part of the problem, is that Charisma is the "role-playing" stat.  My real world strength, dex and con have no bearing on my PC (who could be better than I am).  But my own natural charm and way with words CAN influence the GM when I speak.  My PC doesn't need a high charisma stat when I am charismatic.If you look at old-school gaming, even Intelligence gets treated this way.  Sure, it affects how many spells you can know, but other than that, if the player is dumb, the PC dies.  If the player is smart, the PC survives.The result is, a branch in game design thinking.  Is the PC an avatar of the player, and the only rules you need are for simulating things the Player can't do?  Such as fighting, casting spells.Or do the rules model the PC, and the PC can only do what he has in-game skills for, regardless of the player?  When 3e added more social skills and classes that used Charisma, they headed toward this interpretation.I would argue, however, that since a real player is controlling the PC, the player's intelligence and charisma is always influencing the game in real ways.  An intelligent player with a tactical mind will do smarter things in combat, even with "just a fighter".  A persuasive player will sway the GM to side with him in rules disputes, and NPC interactions.  What all this boils down to is you've got to either eliminate the Charisma stat (an extreme choice) and strictly rely on the player's portrayal of their character (some folks would enjoy this).  Or take an approach that incorporates their real skill, and their game stat.I've seen this proposed before, it's good advice:In any social skill situation, If the player does a good job with actual persuasion/speaking, give them a bonus to their skill check as a situational modifer.  It may be easier to lower the DC and not tell anybody.  A player who just does the skill check, gets no bonus.  A player with no tact who tries to role-play it out, and just comes off as insulting is the tricky part.  Realistically, you should apply a penalty, and the player should learn that they need to take communication classes.  However, it may be nicest, to simply ignore what they said, and make the skill check, with no bonus or penalty.Once you've figured out how your going to handle social skills, you've got to make them happen more often.  If you don't make socializing important in the game, then the stat is useless.  This doesn't need new game rules, just a shift in the kinds of encounters and adventures you have.If you stick to mostly dungeon crawls, the party won't need socials skills.  If you make most of the game about social skills, with a fight for the climax, you'll get a lot more use of those skills.My advice then, is to run a city campaign, where most of the NPCs the PCs need to work with are in public view.  It'll be harder to solve with violence when nobody draws a weapon (except for the bad guy at the climax).From there, getting from encounter to encounter should be a matter of trying to get information or persuade/bluff/bully NPCs.  This will require a shift in thinking.  Normally, to spice things up and make things challenging, the GM has the villain send in thugs to rough up the party.  Instead, you've got to send problems of a social nature.  Spread lies, slander, buy things out from under the party.  It'll be tough, but once you get the pattern down, it'll work.The trick is setting up encounters that are obviously solvable with non-combat, and that would make more problems if combat is used.  It's very easy to make a combat encounter.  Send NPCs at the party with weapons drawn and tell them to roll initiative.  The trick then, is to make bad guys who seldom use weapons.  They send lawyers and spies, and buy/bribe their way.Once you do that, you'll have more social encounters, which will make Charisma more useful.  It'll also mean you won't waste time on tons of combat encounters, which means the PCs will be at full health for the climax, which means you can make it tougher and more epic.</blockquote>

Verification