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<blockquote data-quote="krakenstar" data-source="post: 4325158" data-attributes="member: 70595">I'm a miniature type player, but I've played campaigns where minis weren't used alot (mostly outdoor/storyline heavy).&nbsp; So I could be talking out of turns.I think with 4E you'll miss out on a lot of the finer points of combat if you don't have something to represent positioning in a more concrete form.&nbsp; You can go fuzzy and w/o a battlemap, but not only does the GM have to really have a good 3D skills in his head, so do all the players.I'm guilty of the above.&nbsp; For me it gets a lot harder to visualize concretely as the size of the combatants increase.&nbsp; For a couple others in my group, they are not keen on using maps - they sorta do it to appease us &quot;concrete&quot; types.But a lot more of the benefits of 4E powers actually come in the form of movement compared to the previous editions.&nbsp; I'm not talking about things like blinking/teleport/tree stride/d-door, but seemingly trivial extra 5' or 10' movement while you're doing something else.&nbsp; It translates to big advantages used in the right situation.&nbsp; Almost like watching a skill boxer shifting his angle/stance and all of a sudden cornering his opponent.&nbsp; I think for those might be lost in the translation.To be honest, 4E might not be the optimum game for you if playing with minis takes the &quot;love&quot; away from the game.&nbsp; Have you tried Exalted?&nbsp; You get bonuses to attack if you describe your actions with flare!&nbsp; That might be a ruleset that echo your playstyle more.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="krakenstar, post: 4325158, member: 70595"] I'm a miniature type player, but I've played campaigns where minis weren't used alot (mostly outdoor/storyline heavy). So I could be talking out of turns. I think with 4E you'll miss out on a lot of the finer points of combat if you don't have something to represent positioning in a more concrete form. You can go fuzzy and w/o a battlemap, but not only does the GM have to really have a good 3D skills in his head, so do all the players. I'm guilty of the above. For me it gets a lot harder to visualize concretely as the size of the combatants increase. For a couple others in my group, they are not keen on using maps - they sorta do it to appease us "concrete" types. But a lot more of the benefits of 4E powers actually come in the form of movement compared to the previous editions. I'm not talking about things like blinking/teleport/tree stride/d-door, but seemingly trivial extra 5' or 10' movement while you're doing something else. It translates to big advantages used in the right situation. Almost like watching a skill boxer shifting his angle/stance and all of a sudden cornering his opponent. I think for those might be lost in the translation. To be honest, 4E might not be the optimum game for you if playing with minis takes the "love" away from the game. Have you tried Exalted? You get bonuses to attack if you describe your actions with flare! That might be a ruleset that echo your playstyle more. [/QUOTE]

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