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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jackcarter" data-source="post: 110526" data-attributes="member: 1651">The thread about BADD got me thinking about how unheroic dnd seems to me.  Dragons in the heroic literature were fearsome beasts of destruction that bowed to no one, and never feared to fight with their teeth and claws, but were far from the most intelligent beings on earth.  Dragons in 3e, on the other hand, are forever skulking, conniving, and mortally afraid of getting their claws dirty.  I didn't know that dragons had become ninjas...What dragons in literature made traps so that it didn't have to fight, cast spells from afar, and generally acted as if they were guerrillas rather than fearsome beasts of destruction?  A dragon should be proud to fight claw-to-hand, should rejoice in tearing apart its enemy with its massive jaws, and generally should not have resort to underhanded stragems to win.Alas, that's not true in 3e; in 3e, a dragon that doesn't skulk is a dead one.  Especially in a high magic setting like FR.  Unfortunately, mechanics leave dragons little choice:  Get ninjafied or die.  Even a mighty great gold wyrm is a toast if he gets in melee; all it takes is a 17th level wiz/archmage/red wiz or shadow adept with spell pen & greater spell pen to blow away that measly SR32 and put him in Temporal Stasis, Trap the Soul, Imprisonment, or host of other nasty touch spells.  Or a 15th level hierophant with Harm and then a fighter delivering the coup de grace (figuratively, not mechanically).So I can understand why dragons have to skulk, but it doesn't change the fact that 3e dragons are decidely unheroic.Same goes for the pcs.  I have seeing my pcs skulk around as if this was the Rainbow Six rather than a heroic fantasy roleplaying.  Real heroes almost always fought fair, and led armies at the head, instead of acting like bunch of Mosad agents seeking to eliminate terrorists.Alas, once again, rules seem to dictate otherwise.  Because initiative and surprise round is so important, it's foolish not to skulk around.  I completely understand why my pcs have spent a fortune in getting guerrila and anti-detection magic items; even though they are not optimized for combat, they are nonetheless devastating effective and almost always get surprise against foes without blindsight.Plus, because monster BABs seem to outpace pc ACs, it fortifies the pc determination that surprise is the best answer to not being hit.However, I do miss things like chivalric or Homeric combats.  But I can't begrudge my pcs for acting so unheroic, since it would be foolish for them to ignore the rules.  Many dms would call that 'stupid' and say that they deserve to die.  After all, why shouldn't the rules be optimally used?This isn't about house rules or anything like that: just a little musing on the state of 3e, as I understand it, and my game.  I can't but help to think that the image of fantasy created by 3e is decidely 'unfantasical.'</blockquote>

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