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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gradine" data-source="post: 5230410" data-attributes="member: 57112">I actually said nothing there about tossing weapons off a cliff in that post; I simply stated I would allow dominate/disarm in my games. <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/270381-can-dominate-disarm-persons-weapon-5.html#post5229535" target="_blank">You'll also find I said much later, in post 71</a>: "Even in a typical magic-weapon heavy campaign, you could rule that the  character wouldn't permanently part with a trusty, powerful weapon even  if dominated (so forget having them toss it off a cliff or into lava)  but they could drop it at their feet or throw it at somebody else"I later refined that by even taking away the "dropping it at their feet" by stating that a dominated PC must target another PC, believing that attacks requiring targets to be the RAW. I do stand corrected in this, and it does seem to allow the kind of volcano tossing that everyone (including myself) finds ridiculous and cheesy.Keep in mind, though, that we're essentially talking about a houserule here, so I propose a complimentary houserule:"Dominated creatures must target or attempt to hit one or more of his or her allies."This seems consistent with what is reasonable, as even the RAI behind the "Target any square" rule was designed to at least attempt to hit an enemy. Problem solved.As I mentioned way back in the beginning, this kind of give and take in the heart of an encounter is precisely what I believe is the heart of roleplaying. Any quality DM would be able to allow the player to have their clever moment while still adjudicating it fairly and without it completely unbalancing the game.Of course, this is all moot because now we're talking about limiting the  DM's ability to exploit something, and the DM doesn't need to create  houserules and loopholes to limit themselves. That's what self-control is for. It's as simple as saying  "Well, instead of having the dominated fighter toss his +5 Frost  Warhammer into the lava, I'll just have him attack the undefended Wizard  instead." Any DM who would purposefully cheese the players over to that  extent when there are better options around just because he can isn't  worth his salt, IMHO. Like I also said, this also requires an absolutely gross amount of metagame thinking on the DM's part; your dominating shaman isn't thinking about how to forever gimp a player, he's thinking about how to kill them right then and there and survive. This lends itself far more to "attack allies" then it does to "toss away weapon." This kind of behavior is domination wish-fulfillment, not good storytelling. 4e is a wonderful game and it does have a very strong combat system with fairly (for the most part) well plotted balance. But I believe it's missing the versatility and open-endedness that made previous editions so great. Let's consider, for the moment, a combat featuring the swashbuckler's favorite set piece: the chandelier. He can't use the chandelier to swing across two platforms he would normally be unable to jump because there's no "Swing on Chandelier" power, and it would be unfair to allow him such movement unless he had a power that specifically allowed that kind of movement (which could then be flavored as Swing on Chandelier.) Similarly, say some unperceptive foe is standing directly underneath the chandelier. The clever swashbuckler slashes the rope (hoping it is, of course, the Right Rope) to drop the heavy chandelier on his foe. "Well, I didn't really plan on the  chandelier being a hazard and I didn't stat it up, so you can't do it." "Oh... well then I Twin Strike the goblin next to me."As a DM, regardless of what of system I'm playing, I get the greatest enjoyment in trying to figure out, in the spur of the moment, how to let the players Do Something Cool. As a player, I'm always looking for the opportunity to Do Something Cool. At that is why I'd like nothing more than to find ways to make Dominate/Disarm, or Swing on Chandelier, or Teleport Straight Up possible for players who'd like to try... because it means they get to Do Something Cool and I get to make it happen. Everybody wins, except of course the goblins, but I'm not really rooting for those little frackers anyway. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />If that's not your game, then it's not your game, and 4e is practically perfect for you as is. For those of us who like that open-endedness of combat in days of yore, we'll continue to try to tweak and bend the rules as to be more open-ended yet still remain fair and balanced....Actually, ought to make that balanced and fair. Wouldn't want to give the wrong impression. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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