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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 2773256" data-attributes="member: 18280">The fact that you can have an ally on your flank, and that ally does not provide flanking bonus to your enemies, is ample proof that flanking bonus has nothing to do with whether or not you completely ignore a foe.&nbsp; It has only to do with the significance you accord to a creature in that position.&nbsp; In other words, it is not that &quot;you are not being threatened by your ally&quot; but that you don't view your ally as a threat.&nbsp; Or, as you put it, you feel you &quot;may discount the distractions he might cause you in combat&quot;.&nbsp; Clearly, even you agree that you do not have to entirely tune out a creature in a flanking position in order to ignore them enough to avoid the flanking penalty.&nbsp; Whether or not you &quot;totally ignore them&quot; is beside the point.&nbsp; If this is the basis of your argument, then your argument collapses right at the start.Likewise, despite your assertation, there is no &quot;level of reaction implied in the attacks&quot; of a creature whose attack you are completely unaware of.&nbsp; The &quot;flat-footed&quot; condition exists to allow for attacks that (1) you are not ready for, and therefore cannot react to, and (2) where a chance for a miss exists because, although you are not aware of the potential attack, you are not incapable of motion.&nbsp; The fact that cartain abilities allow you to react while flat-footed (i.e., retain Dex bonus) is, again, demonstrable proof that normally a character who is flat-footed cannot react.&nbsp; So is the fact that a flat-footed character does not get most &quot;reaction&quot; effects, such as AoOs.Yes, there are other things that being flat-footed pertains to, such as conditions that severely impede your motion, but the above is pretty well what the condition encapsulates.Simply put, you are not helpless because you &quot;totally tune them out&quot; -- you are helpless because you are not actively defending and they have the ability to choose the place where their attack will land.&nbsp; You do not have that ability against a moving target (although this is, in part, what sneak attack grants -- and I would certainly agree that a rogue may sneak attack anyone who is ignoring him!).&nbsp; Standing with your back to a wall doesn't &quot;nerf&quot; sneak attack, and neither does allowing a 20th level fighter to ignore a mouse standing near that wall behind him....even if that mouse might later turn out to be a Ravening Mouse of Chaos.Likewise, if I have DR 50/silver and only one character has silver weapons, I can ignore the other characters if I like.&nbsp; In my parlance, this makes me flat-footed against them (which might be my undoing, if they are rogues and can now get past my DR with their extra damage, or if they are clever and grapple me so that I really am helpless).&nbsp; In other words, if you can ignore a foe without being utterly screwed over by so doing, you can probably ignore that foe because it is insignificant.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 2773256, member: 18280"] The fact that you can have an ally on your flank, and that ally does not provide flanking bonus to your enemies, is ample proof that flanking bonus has nothing to do with whether or not you [I]completely[/I] ignore a foe. It has only to do with the significance you accord to a creature in that position. In other words, it is not that "you are not being threatened by your ally" but that you don't view your ally as a threat. Or, as you put it, you feel you "may discount the distractions he might cause you in combat". Clearly, even you agree that you do not have to entirely tune out a creature in a flanking position in order to ignore them [I][B]enough to avoid the flanking penalty[/B][/I]. Whether or not you "totally ignore them" is beside the point. If this is the basis of your argument, then your argument collapses right at the start. Likewise, despite your assertation, there is no "level of reaction implied in the attacks" of a creature whose attack you are completely unaware of. The "flat-footed" condition exists to allow for attacks that (1) you are not ready for, and therefore cannot react to, and (2) where a chance for a miss exists because, although you are not aware of the potential attack, you are not incapable of motion. The fact that cartain abilities allow you to react while flat-footed (i.e., retain Dex bonus) is, again, demonstrable proof that normally a character who is flat-footed cannot react. So is the fact that a flat-footed character does not get most "reaction" effects, such as AoOs. Yes, there are other things that being flat-footed pertains to, such as conditions that severely impede your motion, but the above is pretty well what the condition encapsulates. Simply put, you are not helpless because you "totally tune them out" -- you are helpless because you are not actively defending [I][B]and[/B][/I] they have the ability to choose the place where their attack will land. You do not have that ability against a moving target (although this is, in part, what sneak attack grants -- and I would certainly agree that a rogue may sneak attack anyone who is ignoring him!). Standing with your back to a wall doesn't "nerf" sneak attack, and neither does allowing a 20th level fighter to ignore a mouse standing near that wall behind him....even if that mouse might later turn out to be a Ravening Mouse of Chaos. Likewise, if I have DR 50/silver and only one character has silver weapons, I can ignore the other characters if I like. In my parlance, this makes me flat-footed against them (which might be my undoing, if they are rogues and can now get past my DR with their extra damage, or if they are clever and grapple me so that I really [I]am[/I] helpless). In other words, if you can ignore a foe without being utterly screwed over by so doing, you can probably ignore that foe because it [B][I]is[/I][/B] insignificant. RC [/QUOTE]

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