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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Can illusions be used to provide a flanking bonus?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 2079664" data-attributes="member: 1656"><p>But the Blind-Fight feat gives no information as to what square the opponents are in. For all you know, they could be two opponents standing side by side. If, as you argue, flanking relies on perception, then you must be able to perceive that you are flanked! And Blind-Fight doesn't let you do it.</p><p></p><p>Similarly, if you are blind, and you are struck by two opponents who are directly opposite each other, then you know which squares they are in (since you always know which square an adjacent melee attack that hits originates from). So you know you're flanked... do they now get the bonus? Skip says no - you can't see them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It doesn't state that the caster has any control over the placement of images. They separate; they can move through each other. So yes, I'd treat it as random.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They have to stay within five feet of the caster or another figment. If there's nowhere else for them to go, they'd have to be in the caster's square. If there <em>is</em> somewhere else for them to go, they don't have to be.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What significantly increased power? Increased from what?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, increased from what? My position is that the spell itself states that figments must remain within five feet of the caster or another figment. As long as there is another figment legally within five feet, a given figment might be up to forty feet from the caster!</p><p></p><p>So I don't see "increased power" as being a valid statement. I'd contend that the FAQ interpretation <em>decreases</em>, rather than vice versa.</p><p></p><p>The FAQ even admits it's not using the written description: "<em><strong>Although the spell description says</strong> the images from a mirror image spell always stay within 5 feet of either the user or another image, it’s easiest to assume that all the images occupy the same space the spell user occupies.</em>"</p></blockquote><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't agree that illusions can create flanks... except in the specific case of a spell that states that it can.</p><p></p><p>You can't generalise from that to <em>all illusions</em>. Flanking is caused by a specific condition - you're making a melee attack, and a creature friendly to you and in the right place threatens the same opponent.</p><p></p><p>Phantom Threat provides a second way in which flanking can be achieved, which may effectively rely on state of mind. But it's unrelated to the normal way of achieiving flanking. It provides neither precedent nor example of the way flanking is attained in the PHB Combat chapter.</p><p></p><p>Just like Flick of the Wrist or Low Blow cause an opponent to become flat-footed... it doesn't change the fact that 'flat-footed' is normally only applicable at the start of combat.</p><p></p><p>If I <em>think</em> I'm flanked, but nobody threatens me, my opponents don't get +2 and can't sneak attack... <em>unless</em> I think I'm flanked because of a Phantom Threat spell.</p><p></p><p>-Hyp.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 2079664, member: 1656"] But the Blind-Fight feat gives no information as to what square the opponents are in. For all you know, they could be two opponents standing side by side. If, as you argue, flanking relies on perception, then you must be able to perceive that you are flanked! And Blind-Fight doesn't let you do it. Similarly, if you are blind, and you are struck by two opponents who are directly opposite each other, then you know which squares they are in (since you always know which square an adjacent melee attack that hits originates from). So you know you're flanked... do they now get the bonus? Skip says no - you can't see them. It doesn't state that the caster has any control over the placement of images. They separate; they can move through each other. So yes, I'd treat it as random. They have to stay within five feet of the caster or another figment. If there's nowhere else for them to go, they'd have to be in the caster's square. If there [i]is[/i] somewhere else for them to go, they don't have to be. What significantly increased power? Increased from what? Again, increased from what? My position is that the spell itself states that figments must remain within five feet of the caster or another figment. As long as there is another figment legally within five feet, a given figment might be up to forty feet from the caster! So I don't see "increased power" as being a valid statement. I'd contend that the FAQ interpretation [i]decreases[/i], rather than vice versa. The FAQ even admits it's not using the written description: "[i][b]Although the spell description says[/b] the images from a mirror image spell always stay within 5 feet of either the user or another image, it’s easiest to assume that all the images occupy the same space the spell user occupies.[/i]"[/quote] I don't agree that illusions can create flanks... except in the specific case of a spell that states that it can. You can't generalise from that to [i]all illusions[/i]. Flanking is caused by a specific condition - you're making a melee attack, and a creature friendly to you and in the right place threatens the same opponent. Phantom Threat provides a second way in which flanking can be achieved, which may effectively rely on state of mind. But it's unrelated to the normal way of achieiving flanking. It provides neither precedent nor example of the way flanking is attained in the PHB Combat chapter. Just like Flick of the Wrist or Low Blow cause an opponent to become flat-footed... it doesn't change the fact that 'flat-footed' is normally only applicable at the start of combat. If I [i]think[/i] I'm flanked, but nobody threatens me, my opponents don't get +2 and can't sneak attack... [i]unless[/i] I think I'm flanked because of a Phantom Threat spell. -Hyp. [/QUOTE]
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Can illusions be used to provide a flanking bonus?
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