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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 6276999" data-attributes="member: 6668292">It's two pages in the combat section. They basically learn the ones important to their character concepts (shield users might know Block inside and out), and only reference the rules when they really need to do something specific (&quot;I wish I could blind him,&quot; &quot;I need to push him over the edge, but I still want to damage him,&quot; etc.).It's basically just like any other maneuver you want to do (disarm, bull rush, whatever). Combat maneuvers all follow the same basic structure (Str + Dex + ½ Base Attack or Defense Bonus + miscellaneous [very limited sources here]), as do almost all the TP maneuvers that deal condition + damage (save vs. 10 + Int mod + ½ BA).For some players, I can see how this would slow things down (though a some of it is pretty conditional, like falling), but that's true for having powers, lots of spell options, etc. As a rules guy, I like having concrete ways to do things around, and so do my players. (My brother did once lament that when he wanted to play something simple, he preferred a warrior, but that was pretty easily fixed with a damage focus, as I said in my last post.)I wouldn't expect it to work for people that like light rules, but having 14 pages of general martial maneuvers, different stances (with their own maneuvers), various combat maneuvers, grappling maneuvers, pressure point attacks, mounted maneuvers, etc. is something I quite enjoy. It lets me delve deep for the stuff I want, and still works for what people don't want. (Also, 14 pages might sound like too much, but again, a lot of it is conditional -grappling, riding a mount, entering a specific stance, needing to trip someone, etc.)So, yeah. How do they keep track of it on the fly? Some do, some don't. It's like a spell list or a list of powers, or anything else. Most of the time, players know the basics (&quot;I know I can trip&quot; or &quot;I know I can knock flying creatures out of the air&quot;), but only really learn the staples to their characters (&quot;Full Attack lets me get a second attack in&quot; or &quot;Overpowering Stance gives me a bonus to damage and improves my damage die&quot;). Probably just like a spell list or a list of powers.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 6276999, member: 6668292"] It's two pages in the combat section. They basically learn the ones important to their character concepts (shield users might know Block inside and out), and only reference the rules when they really need to do something specific ("I wish I could blind him," "I need to push him over the edge, but I still want to damage him," etc.). It's basically just like any other maneuver you want to do (disarm, bull rush, whatever). Combat maneuvers all follow the same basic structure (Str + Dex + ½ Base Attack or Defense Bonus + miscellaneous [very limited sources here]), as do almost all the TP maneuvers that deal condition + damage (save vs. 10 + Int mod + ½ BA). For some players, I can see how this would slow things down (though a some of it is pretty conditional, like falling), but that's true for having powers, lots of spell options, etc. As a rules guy, I like having concrete ways to do things around, and so do my players. (My brother did once lament that when he wanted to play something simple, he preferred a warrior, but that was pretty easily fixed with a damage focus, as I said in my last post.) I wouldn't expect it to work for people that like light rules, but having 14 pages of general martial maneuvers, different stances (with their own maneuvers), various combat maneuvers, grappling maneuvers, pressure point attacks, mounted maneuvers, etc. is something I quite enjoy. It lets me delve deep for the stuff I want, and still works for what people don't want. (Also, 14 pages might sound like too much, but again, a lot of it is conditional -grappling, riding a mount, entering a specific stance, needing to trip someone, etc.) So, yeah. How do they keep track of it on the fly? Some do, some don't. It's like a spell list or a list of powers, or anything else. Most of the time, players know the basics ("I know I can trip" or "I know I can knock flying creatures out of the air"), but only really learn the staples to their characters ("Full Attack lets me get a second attack in" or "Overpowering Stance gives me a bonus to damage and improves my damage die"). Probably just like a spell list or a list of powers. [/QUOTE]

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