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<blockquote data-quote="Paraxis" data-source="post: 6424413" data-attributes="member: 13009">Every compromise is to the detriment of the other side to some point, that is why it is a compromise.&nbsp; Telling players they can't optimize at all, when they clearly enjoy it is just as one sided.&nbsp; So let them optimise, but show them how else a roleplaying game can be enjoyable.I am a proud powergamer, I am willing to work with a DM to a point sure, if he doesn't want me to optimise for damage, then I optimize for defense or healing or crowd control or diplomacy.&nbsp; I don't play in a game where the DM says a character concept of someone competent and good at their job is not a valid one, unless it is some kind of silly one shot.So it depends on what you mean my a meaningful degree?&nbsp; In one of my current 5e games I am playing I choose to be the group healer, I know I could break the combat encounters with some builds so I choose to keep everyone alive and continue with the story.&nbsp; So I am playing a human nature cleric, with the healer feat, I could have picked life cleric, but I wanted to use shillelagh to have a magic club that did a d8 at the start, since this DM doesn't like giving out magic items, I also picked nature because dragons and therefore a variety of elemental attacks were the theme of the campaign and I figured the Dampen Elements ability would be very useful.&nbsp; I picked everything about my character to build an effective version of what I wanted to accomplish in the game, it's how I enjoy the game away from the table.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Paraxis, post: 6424413, member: 13009"] Every compromise is to the detriment of the other side to some point, that is why it is a compromise. Telling players they can't optimize at all, when they clearly enjoy it is just as one sided. So let them optimise, but show them how else a roleplaying game can be enjoyable. I am a proud powergamer, I am willing to work with a DM to a point sure, if he doesn't want me to optimise for damage, then I optimize for defense or healing or crowd control or diplomacy. I don't play in a game where the DM says a character concept of someone competent and good at their job is not a valid one, unless it is some kind of silly one shot. So it depends on what you mean my a meaningful degree? In one of my current 5e games I am playing I choose to be the group healer, I know I could break the combat encounters with some builds so I choose to keep everyone alive and continue with the story. So I am playing a human nature cleric, with the healer feat, I could have picked life cleric, but I wanted to use shillelagh to have a magic club that did a d8 at the start, since this DM doesn't like giving out magic items, I also picked nature because dragons and therefore a variety of elemental attacks were the theme of the campaign and I figured the Dampen Elements ability would be very useful. I picked everything about my character to build an effective version of what I wanted to accomplish in the game, it's how I enjoy the game away from the table. [/QUOTE]

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