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<blockquote data-quote="mcbobbo" data-source="post: 6425908" data-attributes="member: 6680581">[MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] - Can't go online right now, so I'll just hit the highlights. Gygax didn't influence as much of 5e as you think he did.&nbsp; I think 3e exemplifies your point much better, but we have to agree that at least some of what 5e did was to get away from that idea.Some metagaming is expected and necessary.&nbsp; My argument has never been against 'none' but against 'too much'.&nbsp; And just to be clear I have no objection to mechanically excellent characters.&nbsp; I just believe that plausible characters are the only ones that can qualify as best.&nbsp; A given PC could easily be both, if you hold the cheese, so to speak.I again reject the notion that I am personally responsible for modifying the game of D&amp;D as a counter to optimization.&nbsp; It's completely absurd.I again assert that my table has a track record of accomodating suboptimal characters in fun ways.So on both counts if 'you' means 'Bob' then you are simply wrong.Aside from those I think your advice to the OP is spot on.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mcbobbo, post: 6425908, member: 6680581"] [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] - Can't go online right now, so I'll just hit the highlights. Gygax didn't influence as much of 5e as you think he did. I think 3e exemplifies your point much better, but we have to agree that at least some of what 5e did was to get away from that idea. Some metagaming is expected and necessary. My argument has never been against 'none' but against 'too much'. And just to be clear I have no objection to mechanically excellent characters. I just believe that plausible characters are the only ones that can qualify as best. A given PC could easily be both, if you hold the cheese, so to speak. I again reject the notion that I am personally responsible for modifying the game of D&D as a counter to optimization. It's completely absurd. I again assert that my table has a track record of accomodating suboptimal characters in fun ways. So on both counts if 'you' means 'Bob' then you are simply wrong. Aside from those I think your advice to the OP is spot on. [/QUOTE]

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