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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7195243" data-attributes="member: 23751">Aaaaaand that irrelevant.&nbsp; Even if you want to believe that those are rules, they still aren't rules for hiding.&nbsp; The thing you are overlooking is what takes place between the player declaring an action for his PC and the DM narrating what happens.If the player wants his PC to do something having nothing whatsoever to do with rules, there are no intermediary steps.&nbsp; An example would a player declaring his PC walks up to the bar.&nbsp; The DM narrates that the PC walks up to the bar with nothing in-between.&nbsp; However, for each and every declaration that uses a rule for the action, there are intermediary steps that have to be taken before the DM can narrate the outcome.&nbsp; If the player wants the PC to ambush some orcs, the DM narrates the outcome using the surprise rules.&nbsp; If the player wants the PC to open a locked door, the DM narrates the outcome based on the rules for opening locks.&nbsp; If the player wants the PC to hide an item, the DM narrates the outcome based on the rules for hiding objects.&nbsp; Oh, wait.&nbsp; There aren't any.That means that either the PC can't hide an object, which is absurd, or the DM has to create rules for hiding objects BEFORE he can narrate the outcome.There, now I've caught you up to where everyone else in the thread has been at for ages now.&nbsp; You can actually join the discussion if you like, or keep arguing the nonsense about page 6 being the rules for hiding.&nbsp; Up to you, but you aren't really going to be effective if you refuse to join the rest of us.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7195243, member: 23751"] Aaaaaand that irrelevant. Even if you want to believe that those are rules, they still aren't rules for hiding. The thing you are overlooking is what takes place between the player declaring an action for his PC and the DM narrating what happens. If the player wants his PC to do something having nothing whatsoever to do with rules, there are no intermediary steps. An example would a player declaring his PC walks up to the bar. The DM narrates that the PC walks up to the bar with nothing in-between. However, for each and every declaration that uses a rule for the action, there are intermediary steps that have to be taken before the DM can narrate the outcome. If the player wants the PC to ambush some orcs, the DM narrates the outcome using the surprise rules. If the player wants the PC to open a locked door, the DM narrates the outcome based on the rules for opening locks. If the player wants the PC to hide an item, the DM narrates the outcome based on the rules for hiding objects. Oh, wait. There aren't any. That means that either the PC can't hide an object, which is absurd, or the DM has to create rules for hiding objects BEFORE he can narrate the outcome. There, now I've caught you up to where everyone else in the thread has been at for ages now. You can actually join the discussion if you like, or keep arguing the nonsense about page 6 being the rules for hiding. Up to you, but you aren't really going to be effective if you refuse to join the rest of us. [/QUOTE]

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