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<blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 7196179" data-attributes="member: 5100">Agreed. I can't think of any way a pillow case gives more than a DC 15 for search. It's probably a 10, actually. The only thing I need to know, as GM, is whether the PCs are actually touching the bed and exposing themselves to any (theoretic) traps as well as giving an opportunity to find things not in any way visible (hidden vs. concealed, if you will).I waffle. My gut reaction is definitely that I enjoyed AD&amp;D model of thinking through the various puzzles around traps, searching, etc. and I miss it in later editions.But.... I've had a couple of players who desperately want to play a face character, mastermind, or something similar, but are hopelessly naive or have bad foot-in-mouth disease. In a game of pretending to be someone you aren't, it seems weird that the nervous weakling can readily play the half-orc barbarian, but the timid milquetoast isn't afforded the same leeway to play the flashy bard. Maybe this is where the game mechanics break down because it's interesting to hear the weakling narrate well his character's crushing strength, but kinda boring and painful to watch the milquetoast stare at his dice will &quot;seducing&quot; the barmaid.Also, as someone who did debate and competitive speech in school, I can totally steamroll most GMs, if they don't look at that 8 charisma on my sheet. That's totally not fair to the guy who actually paid points for a high charisma, chose the Bard class, and focused on the social skills. So, as a GM, there's a real balance around what's &quot;fun&quot; for the group, which includes setting a baseline so that the rules don't suddenly change if the naive player wants to take a turn as the con man.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mercule, post: 7196179, member: 5100"] Agreed. I can't think of any way a pillow case gives more than a DC 15 for search. It's probably a 10, actually. The only thing I need to know, as GM, is whether the PCs are actually touching the bed and exposing themselves to any (theoretic) traps as well as giving an opportunity to find things not in any way visible (hidden vs. concealed, if you will). I waffle. My gut reaction is definitely that I enjoyed AD&D model of thinking through the various puzzles around traps, searching, etc. and I miss it in later editions. But.... I've had a couple of players who desperately want to play a face character, mastermind, or something similar, but are hopelessly naive or have bad foot-in-mouth disease. In a game of pretending to be someone you aren't, it seems weird that the nervous weakling can readily play the half-orc barbarian, but the timid milquetoast isn't afforded the same leeway to play the flashy bard. Maybe this is where the game mechanics break down because it's interesting to hear the weakling narrate well his character's crushing strength, but kinda boring and painful to watch the milquetoast stare at his dice will "seducing" the barmaid. Also, as someone who did debate and competitive speech in school, I can totally steamroll most GMs, if they don't look at that 8 charisma on my sheet. That's totally not fair to the guy who actually paid points for a high charisma, chose the Bard class, and focused on the social skills. So, as a GM, there's a real balance around what's "fun" for the group, which includes setting a baseline so that the rules don't suddenly change if the naive player wants to take a turn as the con man. [/QUOTE]

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