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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Smeelbo" data-source="post: 4628631" data-attributes="member: 81898">Unfortunately, the skill check system for 4E is broken. As printed in the current DMG, a level-appropriate skill challenge is roughly equivalent to flipping a number of coins with the aim of getting twice as many heads as tails. Obviously, this will fail almost all the time, and the more coin tosses, the more certain failure is. Apparently the errata'd skill challenge system has swung entirely the other way, and now success is almost entirely assured. Not very challenging. There are alternative challenge systems around, one of which the author promotes here in his forum signature. How I would do it is something more along the lines of this. The group agrees on an intent and a plan to fulfill that intent. The referee and the players then agree on the main skill to be tested, and the referee sets the DC based on how difficult he wants the test to be, then adds +5 to the DC to account for group effort. Each character besides the main tester proposes a skill test to effectively "assist" the main tester, the referee sets a DC for the assist, which may be higher than 10 depending on how effective the assistance is judged to be towards the end goal. Each successful assist adds +2 to the final test. Alternately, once could penalize any assist check that fails by 5 or more, and reward any assist check that succeeds by 5 or more. So for example, you are trying to impress the mayor so that he provides some equipment for your mission. This is a reasonable request, although the mayor is reluctant to spend many resources on unproven adventurers. The players plan to combine reasoning with the mayor with intimidations intended to demonstrate the power of the adventurers and the seriousness of the situation. The referee sets the main diplomacy test base DC at 20, with +5 for the group size, or DC25 total. The Warlord is the main tester, with Diplomacy +8.The Rogue will assist with his Diplomacy of +3. This is a straightforward assist, so it is DC10.The Ranger and the Fighter "assist" with Intimidates of +0 and +2 respectively. This is somewhat at cross purposes with the aim of diplomacy, but plausible, so the referee chooses DC13 for those "assists." The Ranger and the Rogue succeed at their "assist checks" and so add +4 to the main test, for a total of +12 versus a DC25. Seems like a reasonable result to me, but I have not thought long and hard about this yet. But it does give a 40% chance of success, which seems far more fair than the results of either the published skill challenge system, or its errata. Smeelbo EDIT:  Found it!  It's called Obsidian, and while I haven't tried it yet, it seems very well thought out.  Here is the link: <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/241440-stalker0s-obsidian-skill-challenge-system-new-version-1-2-a.html" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/241440-stalker0s-obsidian-skill-challenge-system-new-version-1-2-a.html</a></blockquote>

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