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Message: <blockquote data-quote="J_D" data-source="post: 1924612" data-attributes="member: 20956">I'm going to caveat this by saying up front that I do not have 4th Ed. GURPS and am going only on 3rd Ed.  I think it was the original rather than revised 3rd Ed because the latest copyright in the book is 1993 and another poster said that 3rd Ed. Revised came out in '94.That said, I like the idea of GURPS and like the realism and attention to detail it provides, but there's one thing that ruins the whole thing for me as a game — the skill system.  Well, not the entire skill system; much of it is great.  Each skill is considered a mental or physical skill (which means it works off of either the IQ or DEX attributes), which has a rough D&D3 analog in basing each skill off of an attribute although D&D does it better by using any of the six attributes.  Each skill has a difficulty rating which means some skills are harder to learn than others, which is in the same general category of D&D3's class skills vs. cross class skills except that GURPS does this better and with more detail.  Each skill also defaults to either an attribute or another skill which results in a whole set of tree-like hierarchies for skills, and this again is in the same general category of D&D3's "Use Untrained" feature except that GURPS does it better and with more detail.To be more precise, the fist-clenching and teeth-grinding problem for me is how skills are bought for the character.  There is no "absolute scale" of skill that starts at 0 and works its way up, as does every other RPG with skills I have seen (note: I haven't seen every game system ever published, so this is not a claim of absolute uniqueness for GURPS).  Your skill level is purchased relative to the attribute the skill is based on.  Let's take an average mental skill as an example.  If you spend one character point to purchase a skill, you don't get 1 skill points or anything like that; you get a skill level of IQ-1.  If you spend two character points you don't get two skill points, you get a skill level of IQ.  Four character points will get you a skill level of IQ+1, Six skill points get you a skill level of IQ+2, and so on.  In effect, there is no such things as "skill points" or "skill ranks" or whatever term you want to use at all.  Character points are used to purchase a skill level relative to the attribute the skill is based on.I can't stand this kind of system.  It is a significant irritant that I can't get past, a mechanic I consider to be drooling idiocy.  To me, the only acceptable kind of skill system is one that has skill points in and of itself, having their own absolute scale that start at 0 skill or no skill and go up from there.  Not having "skill points" in and of themselves is unacceptable to me in any skill system.  I don't object to the general idea of what they were trying to accomplish with this system.  I think it's a good idea for the basic attribute to affect the end chance of success, and D&D3 did this far better by applying the attribute modifier to the "absolute" number of skill ranks to get the net skill modifier.  I don't even object in principle to higher skill levels costing character points on a greater than linear curve; this could still have been implemented with a system of absolute skill points.  I just really, really, really dislike — nay, despise — the idea that there are no absolute "skill points" or "skill ranks" per se.It's too bad, too, because other than that GURPS is a great system.  I generally like more detail and verisimilitude and enjoy some number-crunching, and many things in D&D are a little too abstract for my tastes.  If it weren't for this skill purchasing system I'd probably rather play GURPS than D&D.  But GURPS is a skill-based system — there are no classes or levels and nearly everything is done by skill rolls — so this insurmountable problem I have strikes to the very heart and core of the game.  I find a number of faults with D&D3, but those faults are all relatively peripheral and don't affect the core of the system itself the way this problem in GURPS skills does.  This in combination with my preferred fantasy world (Forgotten Realms) is why D&D3 is currently my game of preference.Even though I do not play GURPS, I still have a large collection of GURPS sourcebooks.  I'll second TerraDave and Insight in saying that GURPS puts out some of the best sourcebooks in gaming.  Even if you don't play the game or like the mechanics, the sourcebooks are full of information and ideas that can be used in other games.  Steve Jackson Games has gotten a good chunk of my gaming money over the years thanks to their sourcebooks!  Hopefully this will continue with GURPS 4th!I don't expect that this core skill purchase mechanic has changed in GURPS 4th, but if it has someone please let me know.  That alone would be enough for me to re-evaluate the system.</blockquote>

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