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<blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 5143721" data-attributes="member: 19675">There is a rough correlation between someone's skeletomuscular mass and how much they can lift.&nbsp; Its not linear, but its common enough that you can make reasonable predictions.&nbsp; One need only look at powerlifting stats by weight class to see the relation.But its not perfect.&nbsp; In HS, I could do a single time leg-press almost 600lbs and couldn't bench over 180, but over time, I got my bench up to 300lbs.&nbsp; By that time, though, I could do multiple sets of leg-press reps at 700lbs fairly easily.&nbsp; So I know lifting is affected by build- my legs have always been inordinately stronger than my arms.&nbsp; I somewhat resemble a fire-plug.However, I didn't say word one about the relationship to combat effectiveness- others bring that up as a consequence of having greater strength.My core complaint in this area- for both Str and Dex- is that to which several respondents to the OP alluded to.&nbsp; To whit, the sacrifice of flavor and evocative or iconic features in favor of balance.You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.My opinion obviously differs greatly from yours.&nbsp; Those flavor effects you call a disaster were, to me, charming...and largely didn't matter at all until they became PC races.Now, I see 4Ed Minotaurs as &quot;minitaurs&quot; (thanks, whomever suggested that months ago), Goliaths as diminished from former flavor, Dragonborn as inexplicably equal in strength to creatures 2/3rds their mass and Githzerai as far clumsier than their predecessors in previous editions.&nbsp; And so forth.They've lost some of their &quot;magic&quot; in becoming balanced in the same fashion as other 4Ed races, and the tragedy is that it didn't have to be this way.Several posters in this thread (besides myself) have come up with alternatives to the method the designers used, most of which seem to bring the fluff, game history &amp; mechanics of each of these formerly outlying races into greater harmony than the actual 4Ed method...and would seem to be, at least at first blush, to be no less balanced than 4Ed's actual methodology.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dannyalcatraz, post: 5143721, member: 19675"] There is a rough correlation between someone's skeletomuscular mass and how much they can lift. Its not linear, but its common enough that you can make reasonable predictions. One need only look at powerlifting stats by weight class to see the relation. But its not perfect. In HS, I could do a single time leg-press almost 600lbs and couldn't bench over 180, but over time, I got my bench up to 300lbs. By that time, though, I could do multiple sets of leg-press reps at 700lbs fairly easily. So I know lifting is affected by build- my legs have always been inordinately stronger than my arms. I somewhat resemble a fire-plug. However, I didn't say word one about the relationship to combat effectiveness- others bring that up as[I] a consequence[/I] of having greater strength. My core complaint in this area- for both Str[I] and Dex[/I]- is that to which several respondents to the OP alluded to. To whit, the sacrifice of flavor and evocative or iconic features in favor of balance. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. My opinion obviously differs greatly from yours. Those flavor effects you call a disaster were, to me, charming...and largely didn't matter at all until they became PC races. Now, I see 4Ed Minotaurs as "minitaurs" (thanks, whomever suggested that months ago), Goliaths as diminished from former flavor, Dragonborn as inexplicably equal in strength to creatures 2/3rds their mass and Githzerai as far clumsier than their predecessors in previous editions. And so forth. They've lost some of their "magic" in becoming balanced in the same fashion as other 4Ed races, and the tragedy is that it didn't have to be this way. Several posters in this thread (besides myself) have come up with alternatives to the method the designers used, most of which seem to bring the fluff, game history & mechanics of each of these formerly outlying races into greater harmony than the actual 4Ed method...and would seem to be, at least at first blush, to be no less balanced than 4Ed's actual methodology. [/QUOTE]

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