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<blockquote data-quote="Shiroiken" data-source="post: 6903683" data-attributes="member: 6775477">Part of the problem you have is that you are assuming the Attack is what starts the combat. I start initiative with the intent and ability to harm. I don't roll initiative at 1000 feet, for example, because that's pointless (no one has the range to hurt each other). I don't allow someone to get a free attack just because they say &quot;I cut him down,&quot; either.In your example, assuming the Alert Character didn't have enough Perception to notice the assassin, the combat begins when the Assassin intends to attack. Initiative is rolled, and the Alert Character is before the Assassin. The Character doesn't know there is an assassin, only that something is wrong. Perhaps the assassin shifted himself to make a noise, but not enough to reveal his location. Perhaps the NPC they're talking to hesitated at the wrong time (anticipating the attack). Perhaps the Alert Character just has a hunch. They KNOW something is wrong, but not what. Attacking an enemy isn't a bad idea in such a case, especially if you suspect treachery. The same thing could happen without the assassin too, if you had a paranoid player/PC (they just don't have the excuse to the other players).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Shiroiken, post: 6903683, member: 6775477"] Part of the problem you have is that you are assuming the Attack is what starts the combat. I start initiative with the intent and ability to harm. I don't roll initiative at 1000 feet, for example, because that's pointless (no one has the range to hurt each other). I don't allow someone to get a free attack just because they say "I cut him down," either. In your example, assuming the Alert Character didn't have enough Perception to notice the assassin, the combat begins when the Assassin intends to attack. Initiative is rolled, and the Alert Character is before the Assassin. The Character doesn't know there is an assassin, only that something is wrong. Perhaps the assassin shifted himself to make a noise, but not enough to reveal his location. Perhaps the NPC they're talking to hesitated at the wrong time (anticipating the attack). Perhaps the Alert Character just has a hunch. They KNOW something is wrong, but not what. Attacking an enemy isn't a bad idea in such a case, especially if you suspect treachery. The same thing could happen without the assassin too, if you had a paranoid player/PC (they just don't have the excuse to the other players). [/QUOTE]

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