Can Spell Focus be used with spell-like abilities?

[Shade]

Can Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus be used with spell-like abilities?

I can't seem to locate the official answer on this. My gut reaction says "no", but I've seen monsters in numerous sources try to do this. The way the feats are worded, they mention only spells.

If they can't be used, can Ability Focus be used on spell-likes? If so, does it look like this:

Ability Focus (spell-like abilities)

or this:

Ability Focus (fireball)?

 

[Krishnath]

Can Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus be used with spell-like abilities?

I can't seem to locate the official answer on this. My gut reaction says "no", but I've seen monsters in numerous sources try to do this. The way the feats are worded, they mention only spells.

If they can't be used, can Ability Focus be used on spell-likes? If so, does it look like this:

Ability Focus (spell-like abilities)

or this:

Ability Focus (fireball)?

Spell focus and greater spell focus does indeed affect spell-like abilities, and it is Ability Focus (fireball).

 

[Shade]

Spell focus and greater spell focus does indeed affect spell-like abilities, and it is Ability Focus (fireball).

Can you point me to where this is indicated?

 

[Krishnath]

Can you point me to where this is indicated?

Not exactly, but I am aware that it has been used by WotC before. Also, it is logical, a spell-like ability works just like a spell cast by a sorcerer, and a sorcerers spells are affected by spell-focus. Also, ability focus in itself says any special attack. And most spell-like abilities can be classed as special attacks, at least those who allow saves.

 

[Shade]

Not exactly, but I am aware that it has been used by WotC before. Also, it is logical, a spell-like ability works just like a spell cast by a sorcerer, and a sorcerers spells are affected by spell-focus. Also, ability focus in itself says any special attack. And most spell-like abilities can be classed as special attacks, at least those who allow saves.

I have seen WOTC use it before, but I've also seen them give metamagic feats to monsters with spell-like abilities and no spells, which is a definite no-no. And sorcerers can use metamagic feats with their spells, but creatures can't use them with spell-like abilities (unless they are specificially designed for spell-likes, such as Quicken Spell-Like Ability). I just need to be sure since I'm working on a project for publication. I've checked the MM glossary, the rules FAQ, Skip's Rules of the Game, e-mailed Sage Advice, all to no avail.

The Ability Focus feat, on the other hand, makes perfect sense why it can be used.

If I can't find a definitive answer on Spell Focus, I'll just err on the side of caution and replace it with Ability Focus for one of the spell-like abilities.

 

[Knight Otu]

Spell Focus first...

SPELL FOCUS [GENERAL]

Choose a school of magic.

Benefit: Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against spells from the school of magic you select.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new school of magic.

The glossary entry - [glossary]spell-like ability[/glossary] - pretty much says that they work like spells, but are not spells. The question is, if the "not spells" part only refers to the lack of components (and thus would allow Spell Focus) or not. I'm inclined to believe that "they are not spells" means just that - they are not spells, and only spells are affected by Spell Focus.

Now the Ability Focus. That may be... interesting.

ABILITY FOCUS [GENERAL]

Choose one of the creature’s special attacks.

Prerequisite: Special attack.

Benefit: Add +2 to the DC for all saving throws against the special attack on which the creature focuses.

Special: A creature can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time the creature takes the feat it applies to a different special attack.

Spell-like abilities are part of the special attack line, usually. Thus, as written, Ability Focus does work on Spell-like abilities. Also, as written, it would be Ability Focus (spell-like abilities)! See the marut's fists, for example. Both save DCs are increased by its single Ability Focus feat. Of course, for grouped abilities, I personally would say it should apply to only one aspect.

Have you tried asking in the Rules forum?

 

[Shade]

Spell Focus first...


The glossary entry - [glossary]spell-like ability[/glossary] - pretty much says that they work like spells, but are not spells. The question is, if the "not spells" part only refers to the lack of components (and thus would allow Spell Focus) or not. I'm inclined to believe that "they are not spells" means just that - they are not spells, and only spells are affected by Spell Focus.

I have reached the same conclusion as you. The fact that they are not spells, and as such, are not affected by metamagic feats, would seem to indicate that they are also not affected by Spell Focus feats.

Now the Ability Focus. That may be... interesting.


Spell-like abilities are part of the special attack line, usually. Thus, as written, Ability Focus does work on Spell-like abilities. Also, as written, it would be Ability Focus (spell-like abilities)! See the marut's fists, for example. Both save DCs are increased by its single Ability Focus feat. Of course, for grouped abilities, I personally would say it should apply to only one aspect.

Interesting. It is a bit of a conundrum, the way that the marut has it vs. the way that a creature with a bunch of spell-like abilities grouped under one entry would have it. I agree with you that it should be limited to one particular spell-like ability, much like the Empower or Quicken Spell-Like Ability feats work. I"m really surprised that WOTC has not addressed this anywhere.

Have you tried asking in the Rules forum?

I haven't, because I usually get mostly "In my campaign..." style responses, which do me no good when trying to determine the official stance on a rule. You guys here seem to have as good a grasp of the rules as anyone.

 

[BOZ]

i've often wondered about this myself...

 

[Krishnath]

I have reached the same conclusion as you. The fact that they are not spells, and as such, are not affected by metamagic feats, would seem to indicate that they are also not affected by Spell Focus feats.

Ah, but you forget that spell focus increases the DC of all spells of a specific school. And if a creature has for example fire ball as a spell-like ability it still belongs to the evocation school, and thus would be affected by Spell Focus: Evocation. It is the most logical conclusion.

 

[Shade]

Ah, but you forget that spell focus increases the DC of all spells of a specific school. And if a creature has for example fire ball as a spell-like ability it still belongs to the evocation school, and thus would be affected by Spell Focus: Evocation. It is the most logical conclusion.

True, and it is a logical conclusion, but not necessarily the most logical conclusion.

I've fired off a revised response to Sage Advice. I may also post on Andy Collins' website as well.