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<blockquote data-quote="small pumpkin man" data-source="post: 3984920" data-attributes="member: 57910">Even in Core 3.5 the difference between Barbarians and Sorcerers is a decent chunk less than the difference between Fighters and Wizards, so it can certainly be made better. Compare the difference between Warblades (or a well made multiclassed Barbarian/something else fightery if you must) and a Warlock and the &quot;fighter type&quot; pretty much catches up and may even come out in front, so yes, it's certainly possible, you just have to give Fighter types actual abilities (which don't have to be over the top, just so they give useful bonuses and options vs opponents which aren't other Fighters) and limit magic.Another way to do it, is of course to set it up so that Fighter can do his &quot;job&quot; without needing the Wizard, and make sure the Wizard cannot take over the Fighter's &quot;job&quot;, note this doesn't have to be as strict as the roles system, you just have to say, (in 3.5) remove polymorph and a lot of the Wizards more powerful defensive and in combat movement spells so that while a Wizard is still powerful, and brings a lot more to the party than the Fighter, he still needs a fighter to protect him for a round or two while he completely pwns the monsters. (Note that that was an example, I do not use that house rule, or recommend people use it without thinking it out more.)Magic is only an &quot;I win button&quot; in D&amp;D because of tradition, note that there are a bunch of systems d20 and otherwise which use magic and don't have the problem of magic being completely over the top (although there are plenty that do), if you're having trouble conceiving how this is possible, ask for some examples, and I'm sure people more experienced than I can give you some.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="small pumpkin man, post: 3984920, member: 57910"] Even in Core 3.5 the difference between Barbarians and Sorcerers is a decent chunk less than the difference between Fighters and Wizards, so it can certainly be made better. Compare the difference between Warblades (or a well made multiclassed Barbarian/something else fightery if you must) and a Warlock and the "fighter type" pretty much catches up and may even come out in front, so yes, it's certainly possible, you just have to give Fighter types actual abilities (which don't have to be over the top, just so they give useful bonuses and options vs opponents which aren't other Fighters) and limit magic. Another way to do it, is of course to set it up so that Fighter can do his "job" without needing the Wizard, and make sure the Wizard cannot take over the Fighter's "job", note this doesn't have to be as strict as the roles system, you just have to say, (in 3.5) remove polymorph and a lot of the Wizards more powerful defensive and in combat movement spells so that while a Wizard is still powerful, and brings a lot more to the party than the Fighter, he still needs a fighter to protect him for a round or two while he completely pwns the monsters. (Note that that was an example, I do not use that house rule, or recommend people use it without thinking it out more.) Magic is only an "I win button" in D&D because of tradition, note that there are a bunch of systems d20 and otherwise which use magic and don't have the problem of magic being completely over the top (although there are plenty that do), if you're having trouble conceiving how this is possible, ask for some examples, and I'm sure people more experienced than I can give you some. [/QUOTE]

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