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<blockquote data-quote="Dronehound" data-source="post: 3988157" data-attributes="member: 58975">I have not played 3.0 and my experience with 3.5 is very limited, but in the old days, Fighters were somewhat balanced with the Wizards.&nbsp; Experience:&nbsp; Leveling up as a fighter required a lot less experience, and mid to high level, the fighter character would be a full level higher than the magic-user.Saving throws:&nbsp; Fighters always had better saves than the magic-user, even more so at higher level.Magic items:&nbsp; Magical items were more powerful but much less common back in previous edition.&nbsp; Less potions, scrolls and wands.&nbsp; A mid level mage was lucky if he had 2-3 wands under his belt.&nbsp; But this is depending on your GM, but most of the store-bought adventure had about a dozen magical items in them that the party had a chance of claiming.Initiative/Spell disruption:&nbsp; In 2nd ed, initiative was the big equalizer.&nbsp; The higher the spell level, the longer the casting time was, while longbows and swords were pretty fast weapons.&nbsp; And if the fighter hits the mage, he loses his spell.Followers:&nbsp; Fighters had followers.&nbsp; A bunch of them.&nbsp; While you couldn't take them in dungeoncrawls, they could be very useful taking care of the mooks guarding the main bad guy's lair while the heroes do the heroic thing and go straight to the leaders.&nbsp; In the big fight Fighter vs. Magic-user, the followers could shoot a ton of arrows on the mage while their Fighter leader closes the gap and go for the kill.&nbsp; Even if spells like Meteor Swarm or Fireball could clear out a bunch of them, the initiative game favorise the Fighter, one in 20 arrows hits the mage making him lose his powerful spell with a long casting time. And if you say: well the Fighter cannot use his followers, my anwser is that the Magic-user cannot use his spells then, because the followers are as much a part of the high level Fighter desing as the spells are a part of the Magic-user's.&nbsp; This is how you used to play a Fighter, and it wasn't as unbalanced as it is in 3.5E.&nbsp; It was not perfect, but the Fighter, one level higher and with his mooks didBut then again, the focus of the game seem to have changed, you face less hordes of mooks with underbosses and bosses in a building or set of caves, now it seems its more tactical encounter after tactical encounter.&nbsp; That is why I really don't like the whole EL / CR principle from the little that I have seen.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dronehound, post: 3988157, member: 58975"] I have not played 3.0 and my experience with 3.5 is very limited, but in the old days, Fighters were somewhat balanced with the Wizards. Experience: Leveling up as a fighter required a lot less experience, and mid to high level, the fighter character would be a full level higher than the magic-user. Saving throws: Fighters always had better saves than the magic-user, even more so at higher level. Magic items: Magical items were more powerful but much less common back in previous edition. Less potions, scrolls and wands. A mid level mage was lucky if he had 2-3 wands under his belt. But this is depending on your GM, but most of the store-bought adventure had about a dozen magical items in them that the party had a chance of claiming. Initiative/Spell disruption: In 2nd ed, initiative was the big equalizer. The higher the spell level, the longer the casting time was, while longbows and swords were pretty fast weapons. And if the fighter hits the mage, he loses his spell. Followers: Fighters had followers. A bunch of them. While you couldn't take them in dungeoncrawls, they could be very useful taking care of the mooks guarding the main bad guy's lair while the heroes do the heroic thing and go straight to the leaders. In the big fight Fighter vs. Magic-user, the followers could shoot a ton of arrows on the mage while their Fighter leader closes the gap and go for the kill. Even if spells like Meteor Swarm or Fireball could clear out a bunch of them, the initiative game favorise the Fighter, one in 20 arrows hits the mage making him lose his powerful spell with a long casting time. And if you say: well the Fighter cannot use his followers, my anwser is that the Magic-user cannot use his spells then, because the followers are as much a part of the high level Fighter desing as the spells are a part of the Magic-user's. This is how you used to play a Fighter, and it wasn't as unbalanced as it is in 3.5E. It was not perfect, but the Fighter, one level higher and with his mooks didBut then again, the focus of the game seem to have changed, you face less hordes of mooks with underbosses and bosses in a building or set of caves, now it seems its more tactical encounter after tactical encounter. That is why I really don't like the whole EL / CR principle from the little that I have seen. [/QUOTE]

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