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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hawken" data-source="post: 2643476" data-attributes="member: 23619">If that's all you got out of what I wrote, then you need to go back and actually read it, not just search for a statement that you think supports your reasoning. Your original question "Can the gods strip a paladin of his class?" was answered quite well by those here that cared to post, despite the fact that you come across as obstinate and rude.  Even at your insistence of finding something in writing, they have provided excellent answers and explanations which you disregard because it didn't suit your purposes or dismiss out of hand because their reasoning was more solid than your own. Your mind is obviously made up about this subject and your insistent quest for specific wording is ludicrous and annoying. I don't think there's too many here who would go back over your posts and not feel at least some slight annoyance or offense because of your posts. There is a difference between interpreting rules as written and making house rules. Deciding that a paladin's powers come from a deity is interpreting those rules from the paladin class description, as well as deciding that that is how they are removed when the paladin does something wrong. The rules are written as they are so DMs will have the freedom to decide if the paladin's power come from a god, some other divine source or perhaps the inate pure spirituality of an uncorrupt and morally upright soul, or whatever else the case may be. The majority of people posting here about paladins and deities seem to have decided to use deities as the source of the powers paladins receive and that is how they lose the powers. It is not a house rule, it is the interpretation of the rules as decided upon by the DM and agreed upon by the players that play paladins. House rules are where some specific and/or existing rule has been altered or removed and has thus been changed to accomodate a specific DM's desire. Everything else is the DM's interpretation of those rules that are written. Saying a paladin gets Smite Evil 2/day, instead of 1/day, at 2nd level would be an example of a house rule. Saying that a paladin gets his powers from Pelor and must follow Pelor's code of conduct (in addition to whatever restrictions exist in the paladin class description) to continue as a paladin is an interpretation of the rules. Like Agback, you are confusing house rules with interpretation of the rules. Yes, DMs and players should hash out the source of paladin powers and what it takes to keep them (or keep from losing them) before play begins. The implicit rule is right there for anyone to see, it is the explicit rule that, like Agback, you are expecting when it is obviously absent and utterly unnecessary. You are also forgetting that the DM is the final arbiter of moral quandaries and such. If the DM doesn't see Torm (or whoever) as condoning an action, it is not condoned. If the DM sees the paladin as having violated his code or alignment, when the paladin does not, then the paladin has violated it. No one thinks they are violating their alignment, if and when they are. Even the majority of sentient, Evil villains think they are doing some kind of Good. The DM is the final decision on alignments and all their implications, and the will of the gods. Not the players. NEVER the players, though they are free to voice their decision. It is the DM that DECIDES. By playing with a DM or selecting a DM, the players are giving DM not just authority and decision making powers over the rules of the game, but how they are interpreted as well.</blockquote>

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