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Message: <blockquote data-quote="braro" data-source="post: 5664646" data-attributes="member: 63089">Stepping back a second, if your post said, instead of "any GM worth their salt" to "some GMs" or even "Most GMs," my response would be:"Yeah, I can see that.  Not everyone wants that in their game."It's only because you are bringing it up as a value statement against the worth of the GM that I'm opposing your statement.  Now, on with the conversation.With regards to giant rat or swarm?  How does blood drink work for that?  The idea of the vampire juicing rats is kind of amusing...I also don't understand how it doesn't seem to make any sense, that a vampire can keep draining victims to recover his own health.  Isn't that kind of what they do?  Isn't an unholy abomination fueled by blood kind of the schtick?  I mean, I am happy to argue the balance of it; to be honest I don't see one PC as having very limited short term health but unlimited long term health, but that could be me, and I will gladly admit that for some games, that might make an imbalance, although I do not think it is an exploit.Now, the Vampire and the Artificer is a little different; it's two different game mechanics working together in a way not intended.  Now, I suspect that if I look at the rules carefully, the combo is blocked: the vampire loses all surges above its normal after a short rest, required to get his HP back; the artificer, I think, generates the potions at the end of the short rest, so the sacrifice would cause off the two base surges (because the vamps bonuses are gone).  Now, I guess you could try to get in to some weird dialysis trick where the vampire sacrifices his two surges during a short rest, then drains blood, sacrifices again...  then you end up with the artificer making vamp blood potions, which while neat from a flavor perspective...Yes.  I would DM rule against that, or at least demand that some people start spending multiclass feats on vampire related stuff at next level.Lastly, I think it is really cool that this thread was started by concerns that core vampire abilities did not reflect the myth due to balance reasons, but now we are having a discussion about how the mechanic for a vampire draining victims might make them overpowered.  So this conversations shows the distance between different people interacting with the class.</blockquote>

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