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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6535482" data-attributes="member: 2067">It may be worth mentioning that in the 5e context, a paladin doesn't receive power directly from a god. Their power comes from their oath, and if you have the Oath of Devotion, you can follow a god, or not, and still get powers. In a sense, a paladin relates to their god like the devout wizard I presented above - a god represents good things about the world, but isn't directly responsible for my abilities. If a paladin of Devotion who followed Bahamut suddenly offended the god, but still cleaved to the principles of Devotion, they wouldn't become an Oathbeaker, though a paladin who followed an edict from Bahamut that violated the oath would become an Oathbreaker. It's also possible to gain power from an oath that you idolize but don't always adhere to - nothing in the RAW stops you from being a CE Paladin of Devotion who wants to atone but can't always stop burning orphanages... Clerics are explicitly joined with a god, however, so Bahamut has a bigger influence there.Just from a religious perspective, this pretty much defines most sacred rules that faithful people follow. 10 commandments or a Golden Rule or "make sacrifices" are a pretty narrow range of unacceptable behaviors, and other than that, you can do as thou wilt (which is also one of those rules: "Love, and do as thou wilt").I mean, most D&D games I've been a part of have pretty active villains whose dire injustice needs to be corrected sooner rather than later. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Besides, this dovetails nicely with the idea of divine punishment for the misuse of abilities, ie, the "danger" of a celestial pact. You never know when you use an ability if Bahamut is going to turn around and send angelic dragons after your hide because you didn't use it in accordance with his wishes. John Dee constantly had angels reprimanding him and Kelly and the whole bleedin' world for not being good enough. Just as a fiendish patron tries to push their good-or-neutral users to evil, a celestial patron tries to push their evil-or-neutral users to Good. The way I see it, a celestial warlock who has offended their patron doesn't get powers yoinked any more than a fiendish warlock wh ohas offended their patron does. Rather, the patron tries to arrange for punishments and death. When you've offended Bahamut, the hosts of angels and metallic dragons will be breathing down your neck to destroy you. Which is a pretty cool character hook, IMO!</blockquote>

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