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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8335915" data-attributes="member: 87792">He possibly was talking about stories, with 4e having lots of good lore (there are from memory three named dragons each integrated into the setting in Monster Vault: threats to the Nentir Vale) and on preview has given examples from the Draconomicon v2, but 4e dragons were also far far mechanically far more interesting than 5e ones. Below's the 4e Monster Vault Young Black Dragon - which can be compared to the 5e <a href="https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Young%20Black%20Dragon#content" target="_blank">Young Black Dragon</a> or even <a href="https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Adult%20Black%20Dragon#content" target="_blank">Adult Black Dragon</a> on D&D Beyond.[ATTACH=full]140235[/ATTACH]The 5e Young Black Dragon is a bit of a pathetic thing; it basically only has a claw/claw/bite routine and can fly, swim, and breathe acid. It's little difference from an acid-breathing <a href="https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Roc#content" target="_blank">roc</a> or the like - and there will be some fights where the dragon doesn't even get to breathe anything. The adult black is better - it at least has legendary resistances and its multiattack routine includes dragonfear. It also gets to tail lash or wing attack or spot things as a legendary action. (That's one lashing tail). It at least is more than a firebreathing roc that sometimes swims - and the only major things that make it mechanically a black dragon are that it swims and what it breathes.Meanwhile looking at the 4e young black? It's both terrifying and very distinctively a black dragon.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It breathes every fight; when it's bloodied (down to half hp) it gets a free breath attack. No reskinned rocs here.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Its breath attack isn't just damage; it covers people in acid, doing ongoing damage. (Red is higher damage, white slows, blue is bouncing lightning to three targets)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Its bite has overtones of its breath attack because it comes from the same throat. If you're bitten by an acid breathing dragon you get some acid over you.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It (uniquely) has acidic blood that splashes all over anyone who hurts it when it's bloodied; the blue dragon for example doesn't do this but gets a lightning aura instead when bloodied while the red doesn't get anything.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It gets Instinctive Devouring; all the 4e Monster Vault dragons have this terrifying extra action but what it is varies by dragon type; the black bites, the white rampages, the blue backs off and lightnings.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It has the Shroud of Gloom leading to high AoE burst damage from the breath. Each dragon colour gets one special ability this way at young; the green gets a luring glare, the blue gets a lightning blast, the green a Flyby Attack</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Its tail attack is distinct from the red's tail attack, the white's tail slap, the blue's wing backblast, and the green's absolutely nothing (when young) or reactive enchantments (for older ones).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It shrugs off the nasty debilitating effects on it because it's a dragon and almost unstoppable (Action Recovery) rather than just a generic Legendary Resistance.</li> </ul>5e uses lighter combat mechanics than 4e and some of that (like different tail attacks with different triggers for different dragon types) feels like gilding the lily to me. But taking on a 4e dragon of any size is a very different proposition from taking on a roc with halitosis and taking on two dragons of different colours is a very different experience rather than simply a dragon painted a different colour and with a different breath attack that they might not use.</blockquote>

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