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Can you cast flame blade and then make an improvised weapon attack with the flame blade?
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<blockquote data-quote="Kobold Stew" data-source="post: 9200666" data-attributes="member: 23484"><p>My last post in this thread.</p><p></p><p>Yup, as indicated.</p><p></p><p>Yup; neither of these is an attack action.</p><p></p><p>I do understand your position; this is where we disagree: Flame Blade is not "exactly like" either of these.</p><p></p><p>And, sometimes, making an attack does use the attack action. ; )</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, as you have noted, some spell do create specific actions. Flame Blade is like none of these, an appears unique. (Whether it is well-written or well-designed is not what I am arguing). But</p><p>(a) it is a spell <em>attack</em></p><p>(b) the spell attack is not part of the casting (using the Cast a Spell action)</p><p>(c) the spell attack is not something a special kind of action not accounted for in the choices in the PHB. I know this is where we disagree, but I think the impetus has to be to look at the available actions first, and then see if there are exceptions. [EDIT: I know "Specific beats General": the question is whether a specific situation is created (c) when a general one (a) applies.]</p><p></p><p>So, of the examples you list here:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spiritual Weapon: round 1 it's part of the casting (b), and subsequent rounds are bonus actions.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mordenkainan's Sword: round 1 it's part of the casting (b), and subsequent rounds are bonus actions.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Blade of Disaster (assuming you mean the spell in Tasha's?): all part of bonus actions, not an action.</li> </ul><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Vampiric Touch: Here is your best example. In turn 1, it's part of the cast a spell action (b), but on subsequent turns you are making a spell attack with an attack action. By my reading, Extra attack would work in subsequent rounds while concentration is maintained, but not round 1.</li> </ul><p></p><p>The spell can be learned by a level 14 Eldritch Knight, and you are right that at level 20 with action surge and extra attack, in round 2 and upcasting, it would be eight separate attacks using your Intelligence, each doing 4d6. (In round 1, you'd only get one such attack, of course).</p><p></p><p>Again, I'm not arguing whether or not Flame Blade or Vampiric Touch is well-written. But I do think they are clear.</p><p></p><p>Thanks!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kobold Stew, post: 9200666, member: 23484"] My last post in this thread. Yup, as indicated. Yup; neither of these is an attack action. I do understand your position; this is where we disagree: Flame Blade is not "exactly like" either of these. And, sometimes, making an attack does use the attack action. ; ) So, as you have noted, some spell do create specific actions. Flame Blade is like none of these, an appears unique. (Whether it is well-written or well-designed is not what I am arguing). But (a) it is a spell [I]attack[/I] (b) the spell attack is not part of the casting (using the Cast a Spell action) (c) the spell attack is not something a special kind of action not accounted for in the choices in the PHB. I know this is where we disagree, but I think the impetus has to be to look at the available actions first, and then see if there are exceptions. [EDIT: I know "Specific beats General": the question is whether a specific situation is created (c) when a general one (a) applies.] So, of the examples you list here: [LIST] [*]Spiritual Weapon: round 1 it's part of the casting (b), and subsequent rounds are bonus actions. [*]Mordenkainan's Sword: round 1 it's part of the casting (b), and subsequent rounds are bonus actions. [*]Blade of Disaster (assuming you mean the spell in Tasha's?): all part of bonus actions, not an action. [/LIST] [LIST] [*]Vampiric Touch: Here is your best example. In turn 1, it's part of the cast a spell action (b), but on subsequent turns you are making a spell attack with an attack action. By my reading, Extra attack would work in subsequent rounds while concentration is maintained, but not round 1. [/LIST] The spell can be learned by a level 14 Eldritch Knight, and you are right that at level 20 with action surge and extra attack, in round 2 and upcasting, it would be eight separate attacks using your Intelligence, each doing 4d6. (In round 1, you'd only get one such attack, of course). Again, I'm not arguing whether or not Flame Blade or Vampiric Touch is well-written. But I do think they are clear. Thanks! [/QUOTE]
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Can you cast flame blade and then make an improvised weapon attack with the flame blade?
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