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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 151046" data-attributes="member: 158">Somewhere in the Seattle Suburbs, Skip Williams and Monte Cook are reading this thread - and laughing their damn fool heads off. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />The crux of what this thread turned into is trying to reduce the action rules of d20 to a series of mathematical equations. They were not designed by any stretch of the imagination to be mathematically equivalent. Perhaps it was an intention at the beginning (as evidenced by the wording and some cursory similarities), but I am willing to bet that inconcistencies such as what Magus Jarel has dug up caused them to change course on this.First of all, it is clear through reading of chapter 8 that the actions shown were technically not even clearly defined as subsets of one another. A standard action is NEVER IN THE BOOK defined as "equal" to anything. A Partial action is defined thusly: A Standard Action is defined thusly:It says "take the place of". In no way does it say "the same as" or "equal to" - a car can "take the place of" a motorcycle in some situations, but not others. And VICE VERSA.I can beleive that ANYONE is resulting to mathematical formula to argue combat actions in D&D. It was designed to be consistent - not perfectly mathematically descibeable.TO say any more than this is to run the risk of introducing false postualtes into their theorems. You can't say that it is a subsetJust as "MEA <>Partial Action," it cannot be said anything other than what is said in the rules. You are on shaky ground to introduce corollaries, theorems, postulates based on rules definitions, or otherwise.I know this won't stop the wrangling, but consider yourselves warned that this is an argument that can't be won - because of false postulates to the theories presented.Enjoy the math-olympics!</blockquote>

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