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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 1244386" data-attributes="member: 2011">First off, coup de grace already is fairly devastating. For a 20th level Fighter, it will typically be 5 damage for the weapon, 5 damage for the magic of the weapon, 7 damage for Strength, 2 damage for weapon specialization times 2 or times 3 for the critical of coup de grace which is either 38 or 57 points of damage which results in a save of either DC 48 or DC 67.Adding 20 points of damage to that and adding 20 to the DC is unbalancing even more an already unbalanced ability, especially when talking about certain types of opponents (e.g. extremely powerful dragons or demons).I have no problem with 20th level Fred Fighter slitting the throat of the 20th level Joe Wizard (I do have a bit of a problem that most of the wizards protections do not protect him against coup de grace at all while he is asleep).I do have a problem with Fred Fighter using magic to sneak in and assassinate an 80 foot long 300 year old dragon because he sticks his sword in the dragons eye (which should blind the dragon in one eye, but come nowhere near killing it 95% of the time).</blockquote>