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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 262533" data-attributes="member: 996">My settings give me a different page count, but the basic idea is simply that the 'bonus' attack you get from a Cleave is, in a sense, just like the original attack, and that the only valid targets for such an attack are therefore those that the Cleaver could have chosen to attack /instead of/ the creature he dropped.Aplication to AoO:  When you're handed an AoO, you only have the option of attacking or not attacking the enemy that provoked it.  Therefor, you can't cleave off an AoO into an enemy who hasn't also provoked an AoO.  Depending on how you handle initiative, this could reduce or completely eliminate the aplicabilty of Cleave to AoOs.  That is, if you don't tweak the initiative system to allow simultaneous actions (as many DMs do with masses of critters) and don't allow the Cleaver to 'save' his cleave for a few beats until another AoO is provoked, characters may technically get Cleaves from AoOs, but will never have a valid target to use them against.Aplication to Whirlwind:  A bit more of a stretch but, consider that, in a Whirlwind Attack you can only attack each enemy /once/.  Thus, any enemy you've already attacked with the Whirlwind is no longer a valid target.  Furthermore, your only valid target is the next character you're about to Whirlwind (who that is up to you, though).  Effectively, then, when you drop someone with a whirlwind and Cleave off it, you must use the extra attack on someone you haven't Whirlwinded yet, and, if he survives, he must be the next target of your Whirlwind.  This prevents you from getting more than one extra attack on someone by Whirlwinding others near him.In both cases, I think, they're viable interpretations, rather than outright rule changes, though, in the first, I think an outright (but minor) rule-0 on initiative order or the 'immediate' use of Cleave would be nice, to keep the Cleave feat useable, in a reasonable way, with AoOs.Of course, I think that 'just allow it' is also a valid interpretation of the rules as written - just one that leads to undesireable consequences.  And, really, 'just don't allow it' isn't entirely off base, either.FWIW.</blockquote>

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