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Message: <blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7364704" data-attributes="member: 6919838">Its less to do with my view of what class is as how much i want the rules to enforce my view of what a player's character is or how they should be played as opposed to what the player's is.Well, see, back in the day when classed systems had nobackground or skills and so basically race, class, alignment were about all the tools at your disposal, class did to a very substantial amount equate to playstyle and goals... And some, perhaps many, me included found that less satifying and migrated away to other more flexible systems which let the player choose the playstyle. A "fighter" may be a thief, with mugging and intimidation. A "wizard" sure could be a scout, woth familiars, invisibility and scrying. To me, and perhaps others, the growth of less limiting classes and broader mechanical options not chaining playstyle and goals to "class" or "race" was a step forward, one that to us made classed systems worth a look. So, the more rules a GM wants to put back into a game to define and limit my character's goals, mindset, playstyle to some pre-conceived concept *the GM* prefers leads me to take a bog step back and consider who the GM thinks should be running the PCs. Like alignments, the more the GM's view of "how a PC should be played" is enforced by rules over pkayer choices, the more that tends to set the stage for player-GM conflict.So, definitely not what i would see as a step forward. But surely, might be for some.As for this..."If you remove individual effort from the XP equation, then you remove an incentive to be outstanding."Do GMs frequently have a problem of players not wanting to be outstanding, not being part of the mix and action?I have had players who did and were very happy to not be the lead, not be in the hotseat, but they are fairly rareand imx were not a problem... Just there for a more casual supporting cast play. Not sure the games would have played out better or more enjoyable if over time that had resulted in them lagging behind the others in level? Would yours?One of the basic issues of "incentivized xp" is the underlyin  question of "is your game going to be better if players who dont go along with your chosen incentives keep playing but just keep getting weaker and weaker as they get more and more behind?" Is your game more fun for the others when their "thief" or "cleric" is not only not playing "right, as defined by the GM" but is also a couple levels down?</blockquote>

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