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Message: <blockquote data-quote="unleashed" data-source="post: 2608277" data-attributes="member: 31408">I'm not making up a rule at all, I'm assuming the diagrams cover all rule interpretations related to flanking, the first diagram is called Flanking after all, not 'Some Examples of Flanking', with the other two diagrams showing how the exceptions work and the first and third show how to apply the line test. If that is so then why isn't there an example of a non-threatening character receiving a flanking bonus...because it can't happen. You on the other hand are assuming from the text alone that you can use a non-threatening weapon to gain a flanking bonus, unsupported by any other data.I've never specifically mentioned a whip. All of my suppositions rest on the fact that there are no generic examples of any use of a non-threatening weapon. So please stop falling back to specifics to defend your position when they're not relevant. Like I said it wouldn't matter if the hobgoblin was a bugbear, the situation is still the same, it's still weilding a 10 ft. reach weapon that is threatening. Note that all of the examples in the PHB are generic, not one mentions a specific reach weapon, or any other specific melee weapon...so why isn't there an example of a non-threatening attack receiving a flanking bonus if it is possible?Just to push my point a little further, the 3.5 update document mentions nothing about a change in how flanking works...the 3.5 diagrams, supported by the text shows exactly that, so why assume that a change was made when it wasn't mentioned.As for the Formians there is a simple test as to whether they are all flanked or not...when a character makes an attack, if all other friendly creatures which are in a position to flank at that exact moment were also to attack would they all be flanking...yes, then the formians are flanked...no, then they're not flanked. It's the only way it could work as the D&D combat system is a sequential system trying to simulate a concurrent set of actions.</blockquote>

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