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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 4743423" data-attributes="member: 12731">@UngeheuerLich: Well, if everybody in a five-man party takes the Cleric MC feat, you have five daily Healing Words. This means that if you are the party Fighter, you become effectively invulnerable during any given encounter: counting your own Second Wind, you can use no less than eight healing surges. (Five daily Words, the Cleric's two encounter Words, and your SW).All this before considering powers (like Comeback Strike) and equipment (such as Dwarven Armor). Not to mention other healing powers your leader might have access to.I hope you see how a Fighter could spend all his Surges in a single encounter, even if he has a 20 Con!Now, the core of the difference of opinion is this:1) I claim this to remove all traces of excitement for this character. He is practically impossible to down, and even if the monsters manage to do so, he will spring back immediately2) I get the advice to run more encounters3) I explain how lots of practically danger-less encounters aren't our cup of tea. Now, it's alright to stop here, and simply say &quot;4E isn't for you&quot;. However, if you do feel D&amp;D should be able to accommodate people who like danger and excitement (like me), feel free to read on... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />4) I get the advice to deny the party their extended rests5) I explain how I find this to be a very crude and unsatisfying solution which only really is a game patch. It really removes player choice where the real problem is that choice was already removed because running out of surges is such a game-breaking deal.Feel free to expand your questioning, and I hope I'll be able to respond more!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 4743423, member: 12731"] @UngeheuerLich: Well, if everybody in a five-man party takes the Cleric MC feat, you have five daily Healing Words. This means that if you are the party Fighter, you become effectively invulnerable during any given encounter: counting your own Second Wind, you can use no less than [B]eight[/B] healing surges. (Five daily Words, the Cleric's two encounter Words, and your SW). All this before considering powers (like Comeback Strike) and equipment (such as Dwarven Armor). Not to mention other healing powers your leader might have access to. I hope you see how a Fighter could spend [B]all[/B] his Surges in a single encounter, even if he has a 20 Con! Now, the core of the difference of opinion is this: 1) I claim this to remove all traces of excitement for this character. He is practically impossible to down, and even if the monsters manage to do so, he will spring back immediately 2) I get the advice to run more encounters 3) I explain how lots of practically danger-less encounters aren't our cup of tea. Now, it's alright to stop here, and simply say "4E isn't for you". However, if you do feel D&D should be able to accommodate people who like danger and excitement (like me), feel free to read on... :) 4) I get the advice to deny the party their extended rests 5) I explain how I find this to be a very crude and unsatisfying solution which only really is a game patch. It really removes player choice where the real problem is that choice was already removed because running out of surges is such a game-breaking deal. Feel free to expand your questioning, and I hope I'll be able to respond more! [/QUOTE]

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