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Can you help me stat up Sarevok from BG1?
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7947600" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>Good first stab. At first blush, I think his damage is too high, but we'll see in the maths below. Hmm. And two things jump out at me...</p><p></p><p></p><p>Right now, he's equipped with a sword dealing slashing damage. I'm assuming that's an oversight, and you either intend to have his sword deal piercing damage or you're going to change his Aura of Murder to apply to slashing damage.</p><p></p><p>Or is he intended not to benefit from his own aura, so it's only for the benefit of his allies? If so, his allies are unusual choices that don't take good advantage of his Aura of Murder – an <strong>ogre chain brute </strong>only deals bludgeoning, a <strong>veteran </strong>only relies on its single offhand shortsword for piercing, and a <strong>thayan apprentice </strong>is a spellcaster who doesn't deal piercing damage.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I suspect players won't like this one. It feels cheap to me. "Oh yes, he'll just treat that as a natural 20." Personally, I'd change it. But I'll do monster calculations leaving it in for now.</p><p></p><p>To evaluate his defensive CR, we need to understand how Limited Magic Immunity (1st) and Unstoppable affect the maths. As always, referencing DMG p274-282 for monster building guidelines.</p><p></p><p><strong>Limited Magic Immunity</strong></p><p>This one is beyond my ability to evaluate. I'm not sure there's an effective way to determine its impact on CR, honestly. The biggest question I have is what 1st level divination spells are you concerned about the PCs using to detect Sarevok? He's a humanoid, so <em>detect evil/good </em>shouldn't pick up anything. Even if he had the ability to be invisible or something, by making it apply to 1st level spells, they could still locate him with <em>detect thoughts. </em>I am unsure about your design intent here.</p><p></p><p><strong>Unstoppable</strong></p><p>For Unstoppable, we can reverse engineer it by looking at the CR 5 Death's Head of Bhaal (<em>Descent into Avernus)</em>. First, I look at its offensive CR. Effective DPR is 28 damage, and attack bonus +7, which makes its offensive CR 5.</p><p></p><p>Therefor we should expect its defensive CR to also work out to about 5. Without taking into account Unstoppable (x3), its HP is 76 and its effective AC 17, which makes its defensive CR 3.</p><p></p><p>In order for its defensive CR to be closer to 5, it would need to have effective HP of 116-130. So there's a 40+ HP difference that Unstoppable (x3) needs to make up. Well, if we assume average damage on an attack from a 5th level martial PC is 14, then that makes perfect sense. But is that a reasonable assumption?</p><p></p><p>Barbarian = 7 greataxe + 4 str + 2 rage = 13</p><p>Monk = 3 martial arts + 4 dex = 7</p><p>Paladin = 4 longsword + 3 str + 9 divine smite = 16</p><p>Ranger with hunter's mark and +1 arrows = 4 longbow + 3 dex + 2 hunter's mark + 1 = 10</p><p>Rogue = 3 shortsword + 4 dex + 10 sneak attack = 17</p><p>Battlemaster Fighter = 6 longsword/Dueling + 4 str +4 battlemaster die = 13</p><p></p><p>Looks like 14 is not unreasonable, especially once you factor in feats, magic items, and other spells.</p><p></p><p>Is there a dramatic boost in melee damage from 5th to 7th/8th level for PCs? +1 for barbarian, maybe an ASI for the fighter so +2, nothing for monk or ranger, +4 for rogue, more 2nd level smites so maybe +4 for paladin. An average of about +2 increase.</p><p></p><p>So for your CR 10 Sarevok intended for 7th-8th level PCs, I'd guess each use of Unstoppable is worth an additional 16 effective HP.</p><p></p><p><strong>Sarevok: Defensive CR = 11</strong></p><p>Effective HP = 109 * 1.5 damage resistance for a CR 5-10 monster + (2 * 16) Unstoppable II = 195</p><p>Effective AC = 19 + 1 two saves + 2 magic resistance = 22</p><p></p><p>So that puts his defensive CR at 11</p><p></p><p><strong>Sarevok (modified Aura of Murder): Offensive CR = 17</strong></p><p>I'm going to do two DPR calculations, the first (this one) assuming you change his Aura of Murder to apply to his slashing weapons.</p><p></p><p>To calculate his DPR I'm going to assume he only gets one use of Deathbringer Assault/Devastating Critical on first round. Also going to assume he devotes all 2 Legendary Actions to making Attacks.</p><p></p><p>Round 1 = (13 * 2 + 5) sword/aura + (20 * 2 + 5 + 3) deathbringer assault/aura + (13 * 2 + 5) legendary action sword/aura + (13 * 2 + 5) legendary action sword/aura = 31 + 68 + 31 +31 = 161</p><p>Round 2 = (13 * 2 + 5) sword/aura + (13 * 2 + 5) legendary action sword/aura + (13 * 2 + 5) legendary action sword/aura = 93</p><p>Round 3 = (13 * 2 + 5) sword/aura + (13 * 2 + 5) legendary action sword/aura + (13 * 2 + 5) legendary action sword/aura = 93</p><p></p><p>DPR = (161 + 93 + 93) / 3 = 115</p><p></p><p>With an attack bonus of +8, that indicates an offensive CR of 17.</p><p></p><p>This would put his total CR at = (11 + 17) / 2 = 14. Which is probably higher than you want for a 7th-8th level party <em>assuming </em>Sarevok is encountered with henchmen. If he were not to be encountered with henchmen, you could probably run him as is, though it could be an extremely perilous fight.</p><p></p><p><strong>Sarevok (Aura of Murder as you wrote it): Offensive CR = 10</strong></p><p>The second DPR calculation assumes you keep his Aura of Murder to apply to piercing weapons.</p><p></p><p>Again, to calculate his DPR I'm going to assume he only gets one use of Deathbringer Assault/Devastating Critical on first round. Also going to assume he devotes all 2 Legendary Actions to making Attacks.</p><p></p><p>Round 1 = (13 + 5) sword + (20 + 5 + 3) deathbringer assault + (13 + 5) legendary action sword + (13 + 5) legendary action sword = 18 + 28 + 18 +18 = 82</p><p>Round 2 = (13 + 5) sword + (13 + 5) legendary action sword + (13 + 5) legendary action sword = 54</p><p>Round 3 = (13 + 5) sword + (13 + 5) legendary action sword + (13 + 5) legendary action sword = 54</p><p></p><p>DPR = (82 + 54 + 54) / 3 = 63</p><p></p><p>With an attack bonus of +8, that indicates an offensive CR of 10.</p><p></p><p>This would put his total CR at = (11 + 10) / 2 = 10.5. And given his Limited Magic Immunity and off-chance potential for additional Devastating Criticals, I would consider rounding up to CR 11. Though I could see an argument to be made that he should be rounded down to CR 10 because he lacks ranged attacks (susceptible to kiting) and he lacks a way to shake off / prevent conditions (susceptible to stun-locking).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7947600, member: 20323"] Good first stab. At first blush, I think his damage is too high, but we'll see in the maths below. Hmm. And two things jump out at me... Right now, he's equipped with a sword dealing slashing damage. I'm assuming that's an oversight, and you either intend to have his sword deal piercing damage or you're going to change his Aura of Murder to apply to slashing damage. Or is he intended not to benefit from his own aura, so it's only for the benefit of his allies? If so, his allies are unusual choices that don't take good advantage of his Aura of Murder – an [B]ogre chain brute [/B]only deals bludgeoning, a [B]veteran [/B]only relies on its single offhand shortsword for piercing, and a [B]thayan apprentice [/B]is a spellcaster who doesn't deal piercing damage. I suspect players won't like this one. It feels cheap to me. "Oh yes, he'll just treat that as a natural 20." Personally, I'd change it. But I'll do monster calculations leaving it in for now. To evaluate his defensive CR, we need to understand how Limited Magic Immunity (1st) and Unstoppable affect the maths. As always, referencing DMG p274-282 for monster building guidelines. [B]Limited Magic Immunity[/B] This one is beyond my ability to evaluate. I'm not sure there's an effective way to determine its impact on CR, honestly. The biggest question I have is what 1st level divination spells are you concerned about the PCs using to detect Sarevok? He's a humanoid, so [I]detect evil/good [/I]shouldn't pick up anything. Even if he had the ability to be invisible or something, by making it apply to 1st level spells, they could still locate him with [I]detect thoughts. [/I]I am unsure about your design intent here. [B]Unstoppable[/B] For Unstoppable, we can reverse engineer it by looking at the CR 5 Death's Head of Bhaal ([I]Descent into Avernus)[/I]. First, I look at its offensive CR. Effective DPR is 28 damage, and attack bonus +7, which makes its offensive CR 5. Therefor we should expect its defensive CR to also work out to about 5. Without taking into account Unstoppable (x3), its HP is 76 and its effective AC 17, which makes its defensive CR 3. In order for its defensive CR to be closer to 5, it would need to have effective HP of 116-130. So there's a 40+ HP difference that Unstoppable (x3) needs to make up. Well, if we assume average damage on an attack from a 5th level martial PC is 14, then that makes perfect sense. But is that a reasonable assumption? Barbarian = 7 greataxe + 4 str + 2 rage = 13 Monk = 3 martial arts + 4 dex = 7 Paladin = 4 longsword + 3 str + 9 divine smite = 16 Ranger with hunter's mark and +1 arrows = 4 longbow + 3 dex + 2 hunter's mark + 1 = 10 Rogue = 3 shortsword + 4 dex + 10 sneak attack = 17 Battlemaster Fighter = 6 longsword/Dueling + 4 str +4 battlemaster die = 13 Looks like 14 is not unreasonable, especially once you factor in feats, magic items, and other spells. Is there a dramatic boost in melee damage from 5th to 7th/8th level for PCs? +1 for barbarian, maybe an ASI for the fighter so +2, nothing for monk or ranger, +4 for rogue, more 2nd level smites so maybe +4 for paladin. An average of about +2 increase. So for your CR 10 Sarevok intended for 7th-8th level PCs, I'd guess each use of Unstoppable is worth an additional 16 effective HP. [B]Sarevok: Defensive CR = 11[/B] Effective HP = 109 * 1.5 damage resistance for a CR 5-10 monster + (2 * 16) Unstoppable II = 195 Effective AC = 19 + 1 two saves + 2 magic resistance = 22 So that puts his defensive CR at 11 [B]Sarevok (modified Aura of Murder): Offensive CR = 17[/B] I'm going to do two DPR calculations, the first (this one) assuming you change his Aura of Murder to apply to his slashing weapons. To calculate his DPR I'm going to assume he only gets one use of Deathbringer Assault/Devastating Critical on first round. Also going to assume he devotes all 2 Legendary Actions to making Attacks. Round 1 = (13 * 2 + 5) sword/aura + (20 * 2 + 5 + 3) deathbringer assault/aura + (13 * 2 + 5) legendary action sword/aura + (13 * 2 + 5) legendary action sword/aura = 31 + 68 + 31 +31 = 161 Round 2 = (13 * 2 + 5) sword/aura + (13 * 2 + 5) legendary action sword/aura + (13 * 2 + 5) legendary action sword/aura = 93 Round 3 = (13 * 2 + 5) sword/aura + (13 * 2 + 5) legendary action sword/aura + (13 * 2 + 5) legendary action sword/aura = 93 DPR = (161 + 93 + 93) / 3 = 115 With an attack bonus of +8, that indicates an offensive CR of 17. This would put his total CR at = (11 + 17) / 2 = 14. Which is probably higher than you want for a 7th-8th level party [I]assuming [/I]Sarevok is encountered with henchmen. If he were not to be encountered with henchmen, you could probably run him as is, though it could be an extremely perilous fight. [B]Sarevok (Aura of Murder as you wrote it): Offensive CR = 10[/B] The second DPR calculation assumes you keep his Aura of Murder to apply to piercing weapons. Again, to calculate his DPR I'm going to assume he only gets one use of Deathbringer Assault/Devastating Critical on first round. Also going to assume he devotes all 2 Legendary Actions to making Attacks. Round 1 = (13 + 5) sword + (20 + 5 + 3) deathbringer assault + (13 + 5) legendary action sword + (13 + 5) legendary action sword = 18 + 28 + 18 +18 = 82 Round 2 = (13 + 5) sword + (13 + 5) legendary action sword + (13 + 5) legendary action sword = 54 Round 3 = (13 + 5) sword + (13 + 5) legendary action sword + (13 + 5) legendary action sword = 54 DPR = (82 + 54 + 54) / 3 = 63 With an attack bonus of +8, that indicates an offensive CR of 10. This would put his total CR at = (11 + 10) / 2 = 10.5. And given his Limited Magic Immunity and off-chance potential for additional Devastating Criticals, I would consider rounding up to CR 11. Though I could see an argument to be made that he should be rounded down to CR 10 because he lacks ranged attacks (susceptible to kiting) and he lacks a way to shake off / prevent conditions (susceptible to stun-locking). [/QUOTE]
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