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<blockquote data-quote="tensen" data-source="post: 1653838" data-attributes="member: 3022">Since I think some of this discussion broke down with the Cleave,. great cleave...&nbsp; I'd like to go back to the beginning.This issue is why actions need to be declared first. There is no question in my mind (although slightly unverifiable under the rule system) that you must utilize the two weapon fighting penalties across all the attack.&nbsp; Otherwise there is no reason in the system not to use your long sword, drop it... and then during your move, draw your short sword and attack... thereby bypassing the two-weapon penalty because you only had one out at a time. (This being done even without the Quickdraw feat.)1) Attack enemy with Great Axe, killing him. (1st iterrative attack)2) Cleave into adjacent_enemy_001 with Great Axe (not killing him)3) Free Action drop Great Axe4) Free Action Quickdraw Longsword, Free Action Quickdraw Shortsword5) Attack adjacent_enemy_002 with Longsword (2nd iterattive attack)6) Attack adjacent_enemy_002 with Shortsword (1st off-hand attack), killing enemy7) Cleave into adjacent_enemy_003 with Shortsword+2 (primary with Great Axe)&nbsp;&nbsp; used for #1 and #2-3 (primary with Longsword, using TWF) used for #5 -3 (off-hand with Shortsword, using TWF) #6You don't get to use the dagger because you weren't using it to begin with.&nbsp; However you might have considered using dagger as your off-hand weapon to make that more questionable.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tensen, post: 1653838, member: 3022"] Since I think some of this discussion broke down with the Cleave,. great cleave... I'd like to go back to the beginning. This issue is why actions need to be declared first. There is no question in my mind (although slightly unverifiable under the rule system) that you must utilize the two weapon fighting penalties across all the attack. Otherwise there is no reason in the system not to use your long sword, drop it... and then during your move, draw your short sword and attack... thereby bypassing the two-weapon penalty because you only had one out at a time. (This being done even without the Quickdraw feat.) 1) Attack enemy with Great Axe, killing him. (1st iterrative attack) 2) Cleave into adjacent_enemy_001 with Great Axe (not killing him) 3) Free Action drop Great Axe 4) Free Action Quickdraw Longsword, Free Action Quickdraw Shortsword 5) Attack adjacent_enemy_002 with Longsword (2nd iterattive attack) 6) Attack adjacent_enemy_002 with Shortsword (1st off-hand attack), killing enemy 7) Cleave into adjacent_enemy_003 with Shortsword +2 (primary with Great Axe) used for #1 and #2 -3 (primary with Longsword, using TWF) used for #5 -3 (off-hand with Shortsword, using TWF) #6 You don't get to use the dagger because you weren't using it to begin with. However you might have considered using dagger as your off-hand weapon to make that more questionable. [/QUOTE]

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