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<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 6354470" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>I can't say that I've read the entire thread, but did scan through the first few pages and found the conversation interesting - but forgive me if I reinvent the wheel here.</p><p></p><p>What I find most worrisome about these sorts of discussions is that there is usually an implied "faux absolute" moral standard, as if the universe has an intrinsic moral code that somehow co-incides with 20th-21st century liberal arts postmodernism. Don't get me wrong, I agree with much of that cultural milieu, and certainly find it more progressive than religious fundamentalism, but find that it is often an instant of its own complaint and unable to be self-critical or recognize its own limitations. For instance, it separates itself from its own relativism, as if it is speaking from an absolute standard (cf. "performative contradiction"). </p><p></p><p>I tend to take the view that we are continually evolving, our social and cultural ideas are changing--hopefully towards greater freedom, inclusivity, and compassion (although not always). But the key is, our worldview now--whether individual or collective--is never complete, never the Absolute Truth, yet we tend to see the world--and judge others--as if it was, as if we were "complete."</p><p></p><p>Anyhow, I am a huge Woody Allen fan, especially his 70s classics like <em>Annie Hall </em>(one of my five or ten all-time favorite movies), <em>Manhattan, </em>and <em>Stardust Memories, </em>all of which--along with a few others--I will re-watch every few years. Do I find the allegations against him disturbing? Certainly. Can I prove they are true? No, although even if they were proven I would still watch his films. Why? Because human beings are inherently flawed and no one is free from "sin."</p><p></p><p>I know there's a difference between stealing a candy bar or two when you're a kid and molesting your step child or, in MZB's case, sexually abusing your own children. But where do we draw the line? We can all agree that sexual abuse is bad but not everyone agrees that animal abuse is reprehensible. Some people honestly don't care, unless of course it is their own pet.</p><p></p><p>The other thing to keep in mind is that most perpetrators of sexual abuse were also victims. This doesn't excuse it, of course, but it does contextualize it as the inherited tragedy that it is. Suffering begets suffering - that is what the Hindu-Buddhist traditions call "karma."</p><p></p><p>A few years ago I saw an excellent, if controversial film in which Kevin Bacon played a recovering child molestor. <em>The Woodsman </em>it is called. Anyhow, what I found to be so evocative about the film is that Bacon's character wasn't depicted as an inherently evil human being, but as someone with good intentions but a mental illness. He didn't want to be sexually attracted to children but he couldn't help himself. It has been about 8-9 years since I saw it, but I think it effectively portrayed the difference between uncontrollable <em>urges </em>on one hand, and <em>actions </em>on the other. Bacon's character couldn't control his urges, but he could choose--through great difficulty--what his actions were.</p><p></p><p>Anyhow, I agree with Umbran's bit about "the baby and the bathwater." To that I would add, "so your poop don't stink?" Human beings are complex, flawed, terrible and marvelous all at the same time. We are all capable of terrible and wonderful things. Speaking for myself, I have done things that I wish I hadn't--from many relatively minor things to more than a few moderate ones (although thankfully nothing truly terrible)--and I think every single human being is the same. When someone steps beyond a certain line, it is easy to be judgmental, but more difficult to turn the mirror upon ourselves, and even more difficult to see that in almost every "bad person" there is a glint of humanity of goodness - even if it is deeply buried behind pathology. Just as in every "good person" there is the potential for truly atrocious acts. </p><p></p><p>I will continue to watch and enjoy Woody Allen films because he is not only the man who (allegedly) molested his step child(ren). He is also the creator of some amazing art, and I support him for that even if I feel compassion for what could be a mental illness on his part.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 6354470, member: 59082"] I can't say that I've read the entire thread, but did scan through the first few pages and found the conversation interesting - but forgive me if I reinvent the wheel here. What I find most worrisome about these sorts of discussions is that there is usually an implied "faux absolute" moral standard, as if the universe has an intrinsic moral code that somehow co-incides with 20th-21st century liberal arts postmodernism. Don't get me wrong, I agree with much of that cultural milieu, and certainly find it more progressive than religious fundamentalism, but find that it is often an instant of its own complaint and unable to be self-critical or recognize its own limitations. For instance, it separates itself from its own relativism, as if it is speaking from an absolute standard (cf. "performative contradiction"). I tend to take the view that we are continually evolving, our social and cultural ideas are changing--hopefully towards greater freedom, inclusivity, and compassion (although not always). But the key is, our worldview now--whether individual or collective--is never complete, never the Absolute Truth, yet we tend to see the world--and judge others--as if it was, as if we were "complete." Anyhow, I am a huge Woody Allen fan, especially his 70s classics like [I]Annie Hall [/I](one of my five or ten all-time favorite movies), [I]Manhattan, [/I]and [I]Stardust Memories, [/I]all of which--along with a few others--I will re-watch every few years. Do I find the allegations against him disturbing? Certainly. Can I prove they are true? No, although even if they were proven I would still watch his films. Why? Because human beings are inherently flawed and no one is free from "sin." I know there's a difference between stealing a candy bar or two when you're a kid and molesting your step child or, in MZB's case, sexually abusing your own children. But where do we draw the line? We can all agree that sexual abuse is bad but not everyone agrees that animal abuse is reprehensible. Some people honestly don't care, unless of course it is their own pet. The other thing to keep in mind is that most perpetrators of sexual abuse were also victims. This doesn't excuse it, of course, but it does contextualize it as the inherited tragedy that it is. Suffering begets suffering - that is what the Hindu-Buddhist traditions call "karma." A few years ago I saw an excellent, if controversial film in which Kevin Bacon played a recovering child molestor. [I]The Woodsman [/I]it is called. Anyhow, what I found to be so evocative about the film is that Bacon's character wasn't depicted as an inherently evil human being, but as someone with good intentions but a mental illness. He didn't want to be sexually attracted to children but he couldn't help himself. It has been about 8-9 years since I saw it, but I think it effectively portrayed the difference between uncontrollable [I]urges [/I]on one hand, and [I]actions [/I]on the other. Bacon's character couldn't control his urges, but he could choose--through great difficulty--what his actions were. Anyhow, I agree with Umbran's bit about "the baby and the bathwater." To that I would add, "so your poop don't stink?" Human beings are complex, flawed, terrible and marvelous all at the same time. We are all capable of terrible and wonderful things. Speaking for myself, I have done things that I wish I hadn't--from many relatively minor things to more than a few moderate ones (although thankfully nothing truly terrible)--and I think every single human being is the same. When someone steps beyond a certain line, it is easy to be judgmental, but more difficult to turn the mirror upon ourselves, and even more difficult to see that in almost every "bad person" there is a glint of humanity of goodness - even if it is deeply buried behind pathology. Just as in every "good person" there is the potential for truly atrocious acts. I will continue to watch and enjoy Woody Allen films because he is not only the man who (allegedly) molested his step child(ren). He is also the creator of some amazing art, and I support him for that even if I feel compassion for what could be a mental illness on his part. [/QUOTE]
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