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<blockquote data-quote="discosoc" data-source="post: 7072722" data-attributes="member: 6801554">Or the problem is that everyone is trying to insert physics into the prerequisites when the game clearly doesn't care about it in other similar situations.&nbsp; For example, you can grapple another person with one hand and shove them to the ground with that same hand, and suddenly they are incapable of standing up.&nbsp; Only your opponent is prone, yet you are magically able to hold them to the ground one-handed while also being totally capable of attacking someone else (or them) next to you if you want.How does that work?&nbsp; Well maybe -- just maybe -- the &quot;shove&quot; action is not meant to be a literal description for every possible explanation.&nbsp; Maybe you &quot;shoved&quot; them down by twisting their arm (after grappling it with your free hand first) into a position where it brings them to their knees.&nbsp; That makes sense and doesn't really require the same physics as a literal shove would, but it's definitely something you see happen in all kinds of movies.&nbsp; Even the art of Akido basically comes down to finding ways to shove someone with their own momentum rather than pushing against them.All I'm saying is that as crazy as these ideas sound, I don't think the right answer is to instinctively houserule a ban or require a complicated set of skill checks or &quot;stack the deck&quot; against the action from happening in the first place.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="discosoc, post: 7072722, member: 6801554"] Or the problem is that everyone is trying to insert physics into the prerequisites when the game clearly doesn't care about it in other similar situations. For example, you can grapple another person with one hand and shove them to the ground with that same hand, and suddenly they are incapable of standing up. Only your opponent is prone, yet you are magically able to hold them to the ground one-handed while also being totally capable of attacking someone else (or them) next to you if you want. How does that work? Well maybe -- just maybe -- the "shove" action is not meant to be a literal description for every possible explanation. Maybe you "shoved" them down by twisting their arm (after grappling it with your free hand first) into a position where it brings them to their knees. That makes sense and doesn't really require the same physics as a literal shove would, but it's definitely something you see happen in all kinds of movies. Even the art of Akido basically comes down to finding ways to shove someone with their own momentum rather than pushing against them. All I'm saying is that as crazy as these ideas sound, I don't think the right answer is to instinctively houserule a ban or require a complicated set of skill checks or "stack the deck" against the action from happening in the first place. [/QUOTE]

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