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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 3567027" data-attributes="member: 22779">Just like I'm trying to hide from two different people?  But, really, I have no problems with using the same roll for different people.  That I've already said.  My problem is that you cannot make the roll beforehand.You are saying that I hide when I move behind the tree, regardless of observer.  How do you determine success?  How can you determine that I've successfully used the Hide skill?  Do I hide every time I move behind a tree?  How is that different than sitting at home, making up lies and then using them later?  I'm telling exactly the same lie.  The listener can obviously oppose, that's fine, but, I'm telling the same lie.  So, why can't I just take 20 (or roll until I get a 20) and then use that lie for, well, ever?If I can hide without an opposed roll, then there is no reason why I cannot take 20.  There is no failure without an opposed roll, thus, I should be able to take 20.  My arguement is that you cannot use the skill without making an opposed roll.  Granted, some skills, like Disguise, can be done beforehand.  However, disguise is actually a distinct action:whereas hide is not a distinct action.  You cannot Hide.  You can move and try not to be seen, which, if there is no observer, will be automatically successful, but, you cannot just Hide like you can make a disguise.In the ambush scenario, you would get some pretty hefty circumstance bonuses for what you've done, and, if you did it well enough, you could argue total concealment which obviates the need for Hide checks at all.What you cannot do is sit down, roll hide checks until you get one you like, and then not move until someone comes along.  Which is effectively what you are arguing.  If I set up my ambush with an hour to spare (for example), I roll my Hide check and get a 2.  I don't like that, so I move my blind 5 feet to the left and hide again.  This time I get a 18.  Great.  I like that so I don't move.  Gimme enough time and I will get a 20.And you cannot take 20 on opposed checks.</blockquote>

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