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Message: <blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 3588989" data-attributes="member: 9789">Ok, rather than do a point-by-point response to your point-by-point of my point-by-point of your point-by-point of my point-by-point, I think I'll try a different tack.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Let's try an example again.  You are an orc who has hidden behind a tree 2 minutes ago to surprise some guards who are looking for you.- Do you roll a Hide check when you go behind the tree?  No.  Why?  Because no Hide check is necessary.  You simply go behind the tree.  No one is observing you and it is not opposed.  You are basically taking full cover from the tree.- Do you roll a Hide check once you are behind the tree?  No.  Why?  Again because it is not needed.  No one is there; you are simply "hidden."  You have full cover.- Do you roll a Hide check when the guard looks at the tree?  No.  Why?  Because you have full cover.  You are hidden behind a solid object; no normal means of sight can allow the guard to see you so you still have full cover.- Do you roll a Hide check when you run out from behind the tree and attack?  Barring special abilities, no.  Why?  Because you've broken cover and the guards can see you.  You're no longer hiding.  (But you most likely do get a surprise round against them.)Here's another example.  You are the same orc in the forest at night.  You are not near any trees big enough to grant cover, but you are getting concealment from the dark night.- Do you roll a Hide check when you are waiting for the guards?  No.  Why?  Again, not necessary.  No one can see you; you are just hiding (English word, not game term).- Do you roll a Hide check when the guards are coming down the path and you move to a better position to avoid their lamp light?  YES.  Why?  Because a Hide check is part of your movement.  You are continuing to hide while moving, and the guards get a reactive/opposed check to try to spot you.- Do you roll a Hide check to approach the edge of their lamp light so that you can charge them?  YES.  Why?  Just like above, you are making a hide check as part of your movement which is opposed by their spot check.- Do you roll a Hide check when you charge forward into their light?  Again, barring special abilities, no.  Why?  Because, again, you are no longer hiding.THAT is what I mean by:The text of the Hide skill indicates that it is usually "part of movement." This seems to indicate that you cannot use it "in preparation" but must use it "when there is the possibility you might be observed."This is a separate argument, clearly, as we've said.  I am taking the position that the possibility of being observed is distracting enough to not allow taking 10.  For example, if an invisible rogue is trying to move silently past a hungry red dragon, the posibilitiy that he may be overheard and thusly, fried, seems to warrant it being "distracting" enough to NOT be a routine or everyday sort of task.</blockquote>

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