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<blockquote data-quote="airwalkrr" data-source="post: 3325473" data-attributes="member: 12460">Why not? There is no penalty for failing a Spot check other than not finding the character, which you did not know beforehand anyway. The same principle applies to searching for traps. I can stand 10 feet back from a door and examine it carefully for two minutes, thus taking 20. If the door is trapped, it is not going to spring on me if I just stand there. Why could I not look around a room carefully for two minutes to see if anything is lurking in the shadows. Of course, a hiding character might realize that someone is trying to take 20 and intervene before the take 20 is complete. It is possible to interpret this as a penalty for failure, in which case the DM might not allow the character to take 20, but instead start rolling. The DM decides the hiding NPC will wait for three rounds before realizing that the character making Spot checks is trying to take 20 (or he might have the character take 1 minute to make a Sense Motive check before realizing this). If the player making Spot checks has not found the hiding NPC by such a point in time, the DM may decide the hiding character takes another action.On the other hand, there is a clear penalty for failing a Hide check: being found. In the case of a Spot check, failing does not change the default condition (i.e. that you cannot see the character in the first place). But in the case of a Hide check, failing DOES change the default condition (i.e. that you cannot be seen). Hence, you cannot take 20 on Hide.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="airwalkrr, post: 3325473, member: 12460"] Why not? There is no penalty for failing a Spot check other than not finding the character, which you did not know beforehand anyway. The same principle applies to searching for traps. I can stand 10 feet back from a door and examine it carefully for two minutes, thus taking 20. If the door is trapped, it is not going to spring on me if I just stand there. Why could I not look around a room carefully for two minutes to see if anything is lurking in the shadows. Of course, a hiding character might realize that someone is trying to take 20 and intervene before the take 20 is complete. It is possible to interpret this as a penalty for failure, in which case the DM might not allow the character to take 20, but instead start rolling. The DM decides the hiding NPC will wait for three rounds before realizing that the character making Spot checks is trying to take 20 (or he might have the character take 1 minute to make a Sense Motive check before realizing this). If the player making Spot checks has not found the hiding NPC by such a point in time, the DM may decide the hiding character takes another action. On the other hand, there is a clear penalty for failing a Hide check: being found. In the case of a Spot check, failing does not change the default condition (i.e. that you cannot see the character in the first place). But in the case of a Hide check, failing DOES change the default condition (i.e. that you cannot be seen). Hence, you cannot take 20 on Hide. [/QUOTE]

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