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<blockquote data-quote="airwalkrr" data-source="post: 3328510" data-attributes="member: 12460">Let me just say one more thing and then I'll be done. Randomness is part of the game. A player who tries to take 20 is just like the player who tries to munchkin their save DCs so that monsters only pass on a 20. The player is trying to elimate (or virtually eliminate) randomness from the game. That is bad for the game. If you disagree, then I think you should be playing chess and not D&amp;D. At any rate, we probably disagree on a philosophical level and should just agree to disagree in that case.Fun is also part of the game. When a DM takes undue advantage of strict interpretations of the rules to use them to allow monsters to take 20 on Hide checks, the PCs will be taken by surprise very often. I don't know about you, but when I'm a player, getting taken by surprise all the time grows trite and unfun because I feel like I have no control over the game and the DM is pushing me around. So whenever there is a rule I see that will tend to add an unfun element to the game, I tend to ignore it or interpret it in a way that will not interfere with fun.That is pretty much all I can say on the subject. If you are not convinced by these last three posts, then we probably disagree on a fundamental level (and changing someone's philosophy is a lot harder than enlightening someone about rules they are unsure of). I do not care to get into a (fruitless) philosophical argument, so I will let my opinion stand as that, my opinion. I admit that the rules on this subject are vague and ill-defined, but I think they definitely support my position and the game is more fun when played my way. But if you and your players have fun playing your way, keep playing that way. It would be pointless for me to try to convince you to play a way you would consider unfun.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="airwalkrr, post: 3328510, member: 12460"] Let me just say one more thing and then I'll be done. Randomness is part of the game. A player who tries to take 20 is just like the player who tries to munchkin their save DCs so that monsters only pass on a 20. The player is trying to elimate (or virtually eliminate) randomness from the game. That is bad for the game. If you disagree, then I think you should be playing chess and not D&D. At any rate, we probably disagree on a philosophical level and should just agree to disagree in that case. Fun is also part of the game. When a DM takes undue advantage of strict interpretations of the rules to use them to allow monsters to take 20 on Hide checks, the PCs will be taken by surprise very often. I don't know about you, but when I'm a player, getting taken by surprise all the time grows trite and unfun because I feel like I have no control over the game and the DM is pushing me around. So whenever there is a rule I see that will tend to add an unfun element to the game, I tend to ignore it or interpret it in a way that will not interfere with fun. That is pretty much all I can say on the subject. If you are not convinced by these last three posts, then we probably disagree on a fundamental level (and changing someone's philosophy is a lot harder than enlightening someone about rules they are unsure of). I do not care to get into a (fruitless) philosophical argument, so I will let my opinion stand as that, my opinion. I admit that the rules on this subject are vague and ill-defined, but I think they definitely support my position and the game is more fun when played my way. But if you and your players have fun playing your way, keep playing that way. It would be pointless for me to try to convince you to play a way you would consider unfun. [/QUOTE]

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