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Message: <blockquote data-quote="airwalkrr" data-source="post: 3332398" data-attributes="member: 12460">Certainly! I happen to agree with the PH on this one.These as just examples of course, but they are the best examples and the ones that I am most likely to allow in my games. Each represents an attempt against a static DC in a situation where you can keep trying without penalty for failure. And before you ask, yes, I define Escape Artist as a static DC because the DC does not change each time you make the check. The Use Rope check has already been rolled and it will not change if you attempt to break free again. If we treat Hide and Spot as analogous to Use Rope and Escape Artist respectively, there are some key similarities. A Spot check to find a hiding creature (at least according to my interpretation) is also against a static DC. That is, a person who is hiding and does not move keeps the same Hide check if you try to Spot again. Of course, I am not trying to argue that the two are exactly the same. There is a difference between the two in that a bound character knows he is bound, but a character who failed to see a hidden character does not know that there is a hidden character around. Nevertheless, taking 20 on a Spot check would still work in this situation because the character trying to spot the hidden character suffers no penalty for failure in the same way a character searching for a trap suffers no penalty for failure. As I have stated before of course, the hiding character might make a Sense Motive check to realize you are trying to Spot him and do something about it before you finish taking 20.I would not allow a character to take 20 on Forgery to forge a document for the same reason I would not allow them to take 20 on Hide. It has a penalty for failure; your document is recognized as a forgery! The opposed check for Forgery is the same because it states explicitly in the skill description that you only get one check to notice a Forgery. The opposed check for Spot is NOT the same because there is no prohibition stated explicitly in the skill description and therefore it categorically falls under the default take 20 rules. While it is certainly possible to make 20 forgeries taking 20 times the amount of time, only meta-thinking would allow your character to really know the difference. You could make 20 forgeries then take 10 to try to detect them each as false, but that would be almost mechanically identical to taking 10 anyway, which is not prohibited for Forgery. So why not take 10 in the first place?Shilsen had said on the first page that he uses a rule of thumb that you cannot take 20 on an opposed check. This is a good rule of thumb, but I would refine it to say that you cannot take 20 on an opposed check when you are the one setting the DC.</blockquote>

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