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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pawsplay" data-source="post: 3333274" data-attributes="member: 15538">No, not at all. In fact, your example to me fits perfectly into my line of thinking. In each case, the last Hide check made prevails. Taking 20 is a special case; you get the benefit of the 20, but you first must take the penalties of failure. Just as the 7, in the second example, persists for later observers, so too would the 20... and the consequences of a failed skill check. Taking 20 is not the same as a naked 20. Now, if the game is using persistent Hide checks, as a GM, I would certainly roll them in secret, along with the Spot checks. They can, if they wish, experiment to determine how will the character is hidden. However, to me this sounds properly like aiding a Hide check, not Spotting an enemy.There are other objections I might raise; is hiding from enemies the same task as hiding from your friend? Is it not within the GM's purview to make you "freshen" your Hide check when the enemies approach, to represent your ability to hide at that time? After all, nothing in the description of hide says one attempt to remain hidden works indefinitely... that would be impossible, since you can already hide from one person and fail to hide from another. Even if you use persistent Hide checks, it's still up to the GM to call when the check is made. Playing hide and seek may not be deemed a legitimate use of the skill.In any case, whether or not you actually care about the failure to hide from your friend Bob, it disqualifies taking 20.Taking 20:When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20.Obviously, failing to hide means you not hidden. Since failing to hide from Fred the Goblin carries a penalty for failure, it is illegal to take 20 to do so, even if there is no penalty for hiding from Bob.</blockquote>

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