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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 3333357" data-attributes="member: 1656">You said that the Hide check is made at the time you hide.If that makes me automatically hidden, then I have already succeeded at the check; if I cannot fail, there can be no penalty for failure.If it doesn't make me automatically hidden, then the default condition is not-hidden, and failing the check (when someone opposes) leaves me no worse off than I was before attempting to hide, and there is no penalty for failure.Either I am not hidden until someone opposes the check, or I am automatically hidden and I cannot fail.  In either case, there isn't a penalty for failure.-Hyp.</blockquote>