Can you teleport onto a ship?

Zerovoid

First Post
Would a large mobile object such as a ship be considered a location for purposes of teleportation?

On the one hand, a location is a point in space, so a wizard might attempt to teleport to where he last saw the ship, and end up in the water because it sailed away.

On the other hand, teleportation makes no mention of knowing the destination's position relative to the caster, or a point in space. The caster only has to have a clear mental image of their destination, and from this perspective, the inside of a ship is just like the inside of a castle. The character will end up in the location most closely matching the one that they visualized, no matter where that room is at the moment.
 

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Scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as a "point in space". All points are relative to something. It's really up to the DM to determine how big that "something" has to be. Otherwise, If you tried to teleport to the other side of the world (which you saw yesterday, for some reason) you would have to account for the rotation of the earth, its motion about the sun, orbital wobble caused by the moon, rotation of the galaxy (or the strides of the turtle the world sits upon, for those of you with wackier cosmologies.)

I'd say the deck or cabin of a ship gives quite enough relative information for teleportation (If you want to be mean, you could reduce the "how well known" category if the ship has moved from their last visit, but I wouldn't).
 

Teleporting To A Ship

Teleportation is, of course, a fascinating subject. However, 3e's version is troublesome in some new areas, particularly the percentage off area where a random number determines how far off you were - which is a percentage of the whole distance traveled.

When teleporting to a different planet, for example, say several hundred light years away, even 1% off will probably kill you. "Gee, I only missed it by one or two light years, for gosh sakes." Now how safe can that really be? And its contradictory, for it says 'safely,' but then goes on to say you could be in trouble anyway, so assured safety is not really guaranteed here after all. This new wrinkle makes interplanetary teleportation a rather dangerous endeavor. Or does it?

Before, it just simply killed you if you were high, but now it seems to give greater details as to how simply being off target may kill you. Unfortunately, this percentage idea will mean death isn't bad enough, but your body will be lost, probably, when traveling vast distances, and that has some nasty consequences concerning Raise Dead (no body).

On the other hand, one may infer they also meant interplanetary, as well an interplanar travel, was not possible since they say things like you can end up anywhere on the 'globe.' Alas, the spell has problems in its faulty and seemingly inconsistent presentation.

I would say, however, the big problem is going from one inertial reference frame to another. If relative motion is large, it could be nasty. That is why it is generally believed one can only travel to places that are either relatively fixed in space, or large enough such that known planetary rotational and orbital factors can be compensated for. So castle to castle, keep to keep, town to town, etc. is fine, but ship to ship or shore to ship may not be, unless you know where these mobile platforms are, either by seeing them or scrying on them first (or well timed calculations, but man, do we even have a good time piece here?). Ship to shore is not as big a problem as you know the shore's relative motion to the ship you can see.

Yet, this spell is not stupidity personified or a wizard's death wish, so if the wizard knew the difference in motion, they could probably compensate. Trouble is, knowing it is a bit hard if not impossible. This will necessitate spell subroutines to automatically compensate for relative motion as one nears their desired destination, which is good since few players want to deal with this anyway. So as long as the relative motion is either known or small enough for the spell's compensational limits, things will be fine.

Unfortunately, the spell seems to work via visualization, and not really knowing where you are going, but only by what it's supposed to look like once you get there. Since this is apparently the case, according to the spell write up, one can easily travel to a moving ship, even if unbeknownst to them, that ship had moved to another galaxy since they last saw it if all that is required is a firm understanding of the unique characteristics of the ship or target cabin within the ship. This gets to be silly, of course, so I'd rather not play that way.

For me, I'd say this spell allows you go to far away places that you know about or were at least described to you in detail. Off target will not mean a % of the whole trip, but more a random distance and direction within certain guidelines, like a % of 100 miles if you'd like. I'd lose this odd two d10 multiplication scheme, however, and just make it d% miles. The range is the same, even if the probability distribution may be different.

'Similar Area' is going to be a problem, the entire concept allowing you to go anywhere you can imagine, and the spell will search the infinite universe (or the PMP anyway) trying to find a location that most closely matches your imagined parameters. Unless you put some limits on distance, the vastness of space, like an infinite number of monkeys producing Shakespeare's Hamlet, can probably come up with anything reasonable. Just imagine a huge ass pile of gold coins, and it will be somewhere in the universe, will it not? But there's that reference to globe again. Well, is this spell of infinite range or not?

I say yes, let it be infinite in range in total distance traveled, but no, the spell is not going to subsequently search the entire universe after you pick a location. It doesn't have the time or power. Instead, let it again search within (arbitrarily, I confess) 1 light second of where you imagine you are going. If no such place or no reasonable approximation thereof is within 1 light second of where you thought it would be, then a random off target location is likely. Rolls that indicate 'similar area' will only set you down there if such a place that VERY closely matched your mental image existed in that range. If such a similar place existed within 1 light second of intended destination, you may end up there. Otherwise, you are just off 1d% miles of where you thought it would be.

I pick one light second, BTW, since this more or less is anywhere on the intended planet, whereever that planet may be. Remember, you can travel an infinite distance, even millions of light years away, but must visualize a target within a sphere with a radius of 1 light second at the distance.

But this assume you even like the concept of similar area, which I do not. I'd much rather a wizard know where he intends to go, and a spell to allow him to do this, rather than some spell that searches the cosmos like some vast search engine hooked into the PMP looking for whatever one can imagine.

Anyway, the more complex you make it, the harder it is to play with it. For simplicity's sake, allow the caster to travel to known locations as given. Make 'similar areas' only happen, even when rolled, if such a reasonably similar area exist within 1 light second of intended target (i.e. probably on the planet they intended), or set them safely down 1d% miles from imagined location if no similar area exists. Instead of a random direction, ones assuring safety would be favored. If no such place exists, oh well, teleporting blindly no bowl of cherries you know.

I will say, however, that 3e's spell is better insofar as death is less probable. Now it's simply mishap damage which you can probably survive, unless teleporting around the cosmos while already seriously injured. Thus, this spell becomes far more usable than before.

As for teleporting to even a well known ship, quite simply, unless you know where it is, I can see a DM clearly saying such a thing is in the 'description' category as it suggest location is important as well as appearance. So using the description category, on target will take you there, off target will likely land you in the ocean or a nearby shore 23% of the time (unless it's a space ship, in which case you'll probably be sucking vacuum. Talk about no air teleport). A further 15% of the time you'll end up on a similar looking ship (somewhere on the intended target world), and you may or may not take some mishap damage along the way, about 7% of the time. So can you do it? Yes. Is it safe? Not really.

To better the odds, if you can see the ship directly or by first using scrying magic, make it up to very familiar. If your intel is good as to where the ship is supposed to be, make it from studied carefully to viewed once, depending on how far off they are. And if they don't have a clue as to where it is, use 'description' for the well known aspects of the ship, but no clue as to its current location, which is also important.

A DM should not let a player find this out through trial and error (to be mean) but let them know all this and then allow them to risk it or not. The choice is theirs.

Finally, Teleport without error just converts the off target rolls to on target rolls, and similar or mishap rolls negate the spell, the caster ending up where they started. Alas, no error used to also allow travel between planes, but I guess they put a stop to this. Oh well. :cool:
 
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Re: Teleporting To A Ship

General Starlight said:
Teleportation is, of course, a fascinating subject.

(snip essay)


Never have I seen a better demonstration of Hong's Third Law, cf "Thinking too hard about fantasy is bad".
 

I have only two points to make here.

1. Hong is right about his Third Law
2. You teleport to a planet in a faraway galaxy thousands of light-years away and arrive within 1 light-second, but teleport to the boss's inner chamber 500 feet away (to avoid traps & goons) and arrive over 100,000 miles off? Methinks "silmilar location" should have some relationship to "distance traveled."
 
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of course

It's magic, not technology. Technology has rules based on the organization of the universe. Magic has rules enumerated in the text of a fantasy setting. If you can visualize it, and the visualization is sufficiently detailed to prevent there being some other place that satisfies the contraints of that visualization, you can teleport there. Them's the rules. The freakin' rotation speed of the freakin' Earth has nothing to do with it. In a fantasy setting, the world is flat and it sits on the back of a turtle. :p

Of course, on a ship just about everything including furniture, people, cargo, etc. is mobile. So it is highly likely that the target destination is no longer as the caster would visualize it.
 

While I love physics and theoretical math I'm not about to paly a session of Nash's & Einstein's!!

I think teleport is clear enough in it's description. If you know a destination you can TP there. If you don't it gets risky.

And not to throw politics into this (hey, if I hit religion is that the trifecta??) but lets keep a grasp of what the "framers" had in mind here. I think there is some definate prestidence to assume they were not thinking interstellar distances.

Maybe D20 modern??
 

Well, to answer the origional question, There are no specific rules about this, so it's up to your DM.

That said, the way I would deal with this is that if the ship had not moved since you last saw it, then sure, no problem. Even given rising tides, waves etc, I'd give it to you.

On the other hand if it had moved, then I would say you fall in the drink, IF you landed on target. If you missed, then I have free licence as a DM to mess with you as I see fit.

The player's solution to this one is to scry in before teleporting. In this case, you would land on target, assuming the usual roll for failure.

My two cents.
 

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't care if the ship moved halfway around the globe or if it lay 3,000 leagues beneath the surface of the ocean. If you wanna go, I'll let you go.
 

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