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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zaruthustran" data-source="post: 3411548" data-attributes="member: 1457">This is the source of the disagreement. The rules for two-handed weapons reference the rules for strength, specifically in how to apply the strength bonus. You consider the repetition in the description of two-handed weapons as a new source of rules. I consider them a summary of existing rules.Monkey grip: "You may use some weapons one size category larger than normal in exchange for a –2 penalty on attacks. A Medium-sized character could use a Large-sized Longsword as a One-Handed Weapon."A large-sized longsword is objectively a two-handed weapon, so according to the rules for weapon sizes it's the same size as a greatsword. So instead of a large-sized longsword, let's use a normal greatsword--less confusing. Though Monkey Grip allows the greatsword to be used as a one-handed weapon, it's still a two-handed weapon--that's where "greatsword" appears in the weapons table. It only gets 1x str damage because it's wielded in one hand. If your interpretation is correct, it'd get 1.5xstr even if wielded in one because it is still a two-handed weapon. It's a two-handed weapon wielded in one hand. Weapons wielded in one hand get 1xstr bonus. A Lance is an exception to the usual rules; that's why the text "While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand" exists. The rule for strength says "two-handed attacks receive one and a half times the Strength bonus." A lance wielded in one hand (such as when mounted) is not a "two-handed attack." So it gets 1xstr bonus.That's just repeating the rule from Strength; the text assumes that a person wielding a two-handed weapon is using it with two hands. As you pointed out, how otherwise could a person wield such a weapon?There's just the one rule, under "Strength". The entry for "one-handed" says "If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls."It does not say "If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, treat it as a two-handed weapon".Instead, it just references the rule for Strength. And so does the entry for two-handed weapons.Poor comparison; you can only deny something once.If there really are separate rules, a person wielding a greatsword can add:1. 1.5xstr bonus while making a two handed attack. Source: Strength rule.2. 1.5xstr bonus for using a two-handed weapon. Source: Two-handed weapon rule.If you believe they are distinct and separate rules--that str bonus to damage is determined by both number of hands used, *and* size of weapon used--you must add both bonuses to a two-handed attack with a two-handed weapon.And that's silly.Much more reasonable that the rules for weapon size/effort needed to wield a weapon (the description of light, one-handed, and two-handed) are just referencing the rules from Strength, not creating new rules. Much more reasonable to assume that the rules for applying Strength bonus are found in the ability score chapter, not the equipment chapter.-z</blockquote>

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