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Cantrip Auto-Scaling - A 5e Critique
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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7534948" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>At least we are getting somewhere. Though judging by this thread I'm not so sure you are right about #2...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Except a first level spell is literally 9 distinct abilities:</p><p>1. the ability to spend a 1st level spell slot to do x1.</p><p>2. the ability to spend a 2nd level spell slot to do x2.</p><p>3. the ability to spend a 3rd level spell slot to do x3.</p><p>etc.</p><p></p><p>A reference to the spell is a reference to all the above abilities. A reference to the level of spell slot resource being used let's everyone know exactly which of these abilities is being referred to. So if you want to get technical my position would be about the spell and the spell slot. I think most people here were smart enough to get that. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not following cantrips have slots too. The closest thing to that I recall was, cantrips require an action. Is that what you meant?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep, I remember that one quite well. I'm still amazed they were getting the resource confused with the ability that allows the use of the resource. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm still not sure what this "cantrip slot" you speak of is.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>While true, my argument was never cantrips are better than all spells that can be cast with a 1st level spell slot. The problem was that cantrips are better than 1st level damage spells cast with a first level slot. In fact it's fantastic that 5e has a number of 1st level spells that are better than cantrips when cast in 1st level slots. But that fact doesn't have any relevance on whether any given 1st level spell cast in a 1st level slot should be better than a cantrip.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep that's my position.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>1st level spells cast in first level slots cannot be cast using higher level slots. </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>What other resource cost? Action economy? If it's not that then your going to have to explain better.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No I don't. Versatility is great. It's just not relevant to my position.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>All true. All not relevant.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But that's supposing that I'm saying 1st level spells used with 1st level spell slots in general are worse than cantrips. I've not said that and never would. It's like a bunch of strawmen keep getting created just to be beat down.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 7534948, member: 6795602"] At least we are getting somewhere. Though judging by this thread I'm not so sure you are right about #2... Except a first level spell is literally 9 distinct abilities: 1. the ability to spend a 1st level spell slot to do x1. 2. the ability to spend a 2nd level spell slot to do x2. 3. the ability to spend a 3rd level spell slot to do x3. etc. A reference to the spell is a reference to all the above abilities. A reference to the level of spell slot resource being used let's everyone know exactly which of these abilities is being referred to. So if you want to get technical my position would be about the spell and the spell slot. I think most people here were smart enough to get that. I'm not following cantrips have slots too. The closest thing to that I recall was, cantrips require an action. Is that what you meant? Yep, I remember that one quite well. I'm still amazed they were getting the resource confused with the ability that allows the use of the resource. I'm still not sure what this "cantrip slot" you speak of is. While true, my argument was never cantrips are better than all spells that can be cast with a 1st level spell slot. The problem was that cantrips are better than 1st level damage spells cast with a first level slot. In fact it's fantastic that 5e has a number of 1st level spells that are better than cantrips when cast in 1st level slots. But that fact doesn't have any relevance on whether any given 1st level spell cast in a 1st level slot should be better than a cantrip. Yep that's my position. 1st level spells cast in first level slots cannot be cast using higher level slots. What other resource cost? Action economy? If it's not that then your going to have to explain better. No I don't. Versatility is great. It's just not relevant to my position. All true. All not relevant. But that's supposing that I'm saying 1st level spells used with 1st level spell slots in general are worse than cantrips. I've not said that and never would. It's like a bunch of strawmen keep getting created just to be beat down. [/QUOTE]
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