Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Cantrip House Rule
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="squibbles" data-source="post: 7555754" data-attributes="member: 6937590"><p>Problems:</p><p>As others have mentioned, your proposed changes would create problems with 1/2 and 1/3 casters. I'm sure you could iron out every caster's progression, but it would require some fiddling and make spell progression more complex. I also forsee this making casters less fun. Admittedly, a few lost dice of cantrip damage isn't gamebreaking. But I think that throwing a 1d10+nada firebolt at something would feel so lackluster at 5th+ level that it would rarely be done and would feel like a non-option. Replacing an option with a non-option is unfun.</p><p></p><p>Balance:</p><p>It's probably fine. By all means, try it and tell us how it goes!</p><p></p><p>Do I like it?:</p><p>I think it's okay. I also dislike the way damage cantrips trivialize magic missile, chromatic orb, and pals (and understand why you don't want to have that particular argument again). However, I think it would be hard to remove cantrip scaling without making damage cantrips feel pointless.</p><p></p><p>You note:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>which is true enough. But you could also take the attack action which, in most cases, would be functionally equivalent. My guess is that non-scaling damage cantrips would be a near-vestigial class feature. Most of the scaling cantrips already feel vestigial... I mean, poison spray, acid splash, infestation; 5e's got mediocre damage cantrips for days, and making them even more so strikes me as less than ideal.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Fair in terms of power, absolutely. Fair in terms of player fun, I'm skeptical.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Anyway, though, since naysayers without constructive criticism are also unfun, let me suggest a tweak to your idea:</p><p></p><p>Why don't you have damage cantrips get a feature at character levels 5 and 11, that allow them to scale, <strong>temporarily</strong>, <strong>at the cost of a spell slot</strong>. At 5th level, casters can add 1 extra die to cantrip damage by expending a 1st level spell slot <strong>upon casting the cantrip</strong>, and retain the increased damage for 1 minute (or 10, whatever). At 11th level, casters can add 2 extra dice to cantrip damage at the cost of a 2nd level spell slot. To compensate them for the increased slot usage, full casters get an extra 1st level spell slot at 5th level and an extra 2nd level slot at 11th level, <strong>as a class feature, with no changes to base slot progression</strong>. No special features are needed at 17th level, cantrips no longer matter at that point. 1/2 casters are unaffected, since they don't have cantrips. 1/3 casters would get to add dice to their damage cantrips <strong>at no cost</strong> as a subclass feature, b/c rule of cool. PCs with the magic initiate feat get <em>nothing</em>, they don't need extra bells and whistles.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="squibbles, post: 7555754, member: 6937590"] Problems: As others have mentioned, your proposed changes would create problems with 1/2 and 1/3 casters. I'm sure you could iron out every caster's progression, but it would require some fiddling and make spell progression more complex. I also forsee this making casters less fun. Admittedly, a few lost dice of cantrip damage isn't gamebreaking. But I think that throwing a 1d10+nada firebolt at something would feel so lackluster at 5th+ level that it would rarely be done and would feel like a non-option. Replacing an option with a non-option is unfun. Balance: It's probably fine. By all means, try it and tell us how it goes! Do I like it?: I think it's okay. I also dislike the way damage cantrips trivialize magic missile, chromatic orb, and pals (and understand why you don't want to have that particular argument again). However, I think it would be hard to remove cantrip scaling without making damage cantrips feel pointless. You note: which is true enough. But you could also take the attack action which, in most cases, would be functionally equivalent. My guess is that non-scaling damage cantrips would be a near-vestigial class feature. Most of the scaling cantrips already feel vestigial... I mean, poison spray, acid splash, infestation; 5e's got mediocre damage cantrips for days, and making them even more so strikes me as less than ideal. Fair in terms of power, absolutely. Fair in terms of player fun, I'm skeptical. Anyway, though, since naysayers without constructive criticism are also unfun, let me suggest a tweak to your idea: Why don't you have damage cantrips get a feature at character levels 5 and 11, that allow them to scale, [B]temporarily[/B], [B]at the cost of a spell slot[/B]. At 5th level, casters can add 1 extra die to cantrip damage by expending a 1st level spell slot [B]upon casting the cantrip[/B], and retain the increased damage for 1 minute (or 10, whatever). At 11th level, casters can add 2 extra dice to cantrip damage at the cost of a 2nd level spell slot. To compensate them for the increased slot usage, full casters get an extra 1st level spell slot at 5th level and an extra 2nd level slot at 11th level, [B]as a class feature, with no changes to base slot progression[/B]. No special features are needed at 17th level, cantrips no longer matter at that point. 1/2 casters are unaffected, since they don't have cantrips. 1/3 casters would get to add dice to their damage cantrips [B]at no cost[/B] as a subclass feature, b/c rule of cool. PCs with the magic initiate feat get [I]nothing[/I], they don't need extra bells and whistles. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Cantrip House Rule
Top