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Cantrips, a Curious Thing
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9052552" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>It is the way it is because things <em>used</em> to be as you desire: lower-level spell slots scaled up with caster level.</p><p></p><p>The result was 3e/3.5e/PF1e's runaway overpowered spellcasters. Ironically, back then, cantrips <em>didn't</em> scale at all <em>and</em> were limited in quantity (until PF1e anyway.) They quickly became worthless for anything but color or RP because first-level spells were plentiful, doubly so with bonus spell slots from high ability score. Given how horribly, blatantly unbalanced this was, it was one of the few 3e-isms that 5e staunchly refused to adopt, and the game is better for it. But in the absence of scaling by spell level, <em>something</em> has to scale, otherwise casters would (gasp! shock! horror!) actually <em>suck</em> at something for a change, so they added scaling to cantrips instead. It's one of the few relatively openly gamist elements in 5e as a result.</p><p></p><p>I don't think they ever meant or intended there to be an explanation for this. It's just what it is, like how hit points just nebulously <em>are</em>, or how having two different sources of benefit has no effect on how well you will do (Advantage doesn't stack at all.) It's just a thing.</p><p></p><p>If you want an explanation, however, the one that would make sense to me is that cantrips depend more on the power of the user than the power of the spell. Truly <em>slotted</em> spells have a fixed value because they are precisely defined. Cantrips, being non-slot spells, depend far more on the mojo of the person casting them. A high-level, highly experienced Wizard has a bigger "pool" of magical energy to draw on, and the <em>size</em> of the pool matters for cantrips, whereas it doesn't for slotted spells.</p><p></p><p>This would, in theory, mean that cantrips should get weaker once you've spent your higher-level spells, but maybe it's just a matter of being <em>capable</em> of casting those high-level spells that makes the difference. And the levels you get better cantrips are pretty reasonable in this context: at 11th level, you get 6th level spells, which are much less available than anything lower (Wizard, Sorcerer, and Druid can all recover lower level spells, but not 6+.) At 17th, you get access to 9th level spells, the top end of magic ability. 5th is the only one that doesn't have a clear thematic justification, but it is generally seen as being the first "big boy spells" level, with things like <em>fireball, fly, haste</em>, and <em>revivify</em> all showing up with spells that full casters get at level 5 (meaning, 3rd level spells.) In that sense, one might say that spells come in tiers, 0th-2nd "lesser," 3rd-5th "greater," 6th-8th "grand," and 9th "greatest, with cantrips reflecting this growth in power.</p><p></p><p>Of course, that doesn't do crap to explain cantrips for half- or partial-casters like Eldritch Knights or Artificers. But I doubt anyone can do much better.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9052552, member: 6790260"] It is the way it is because things [I]used[/I] to be as you desire: lower-level spell slots scaled up with caster level. The result was 3e/3.5e/PF1e's runaway overpowered spellcasters. Ironically, back then, cantrips [I]didn't[/I] scale at all [I]and[/I] were limited in quantity (until PF1e anyway.) They quickly became worthless for anything but color or RP because first-level spells were plentiful, doubly so with bonus spell slots from high ability score. Given how horribly, blatantly unbalanced this was, it was one of the few 3e-isms that 5e staunchly refused to adopt, and the game is better for it. But in the absence of scaling by spell level, [I]something[/I] has to scale, otherwise casters would (gasp! shock! horror!) actually [I]suck[/I] at something for a change, so they added scaling to cantrips instead. It's one of the few relatively openly gamist elements in 5e as a result. I don't think they ever meant or intended there to be an explanation for this. It's just what it is, like how hit points just nebulously [I]are[/I], or how having two different sources of benefit has no effect on how well you will do (Advantage doesn't stack at all.) It's just a thing. If you want an explanation, however, the one that would make sense to me is that cantrips depend more on the power of the user than the power of the spell. Truly [I]slotted[/I] spells have a fixed value because they are precisely defined. Cantrips, being non-slot spells, depend far more on the mojo of the person casting them. A high-level, highly experienced Wizard has a bigger "pool" of magical energy to draw on, and the [I]size[/I] of the pool matters for cantrips, whereas it doesn't for slotted spells. This would, in theory, mean that cantrips should get weaker once you've spent your higher-level spells, but maybe it's just a matter of being [I]capable[/I] of casting those high-level spells that makes the difference. And the levels you get better cantrips are pretty reasonable in this context: at 11th level, you get 6th level spells, which are much less available than anything lower (Wizard, Sorcerer, and Druid can all recover lower level spells, but not 6+.) At 17th, you get access to 9th level spells, the top end of magic ability. 5th is the only one that doesn't have a clear thematic justification, but it is generally seen as being the first "big boy spells" level, with things like [I]fireball, fly, haste[/I], and [I]revivify[/I] all showing up with spells that full casters get at level 5 (meaning, 3rd level spells.) In that sense, one might say that spells come in tiers, 0th-2nd "lesser," 3rd-5th "greater," 6th-8th "grand," and 9th "greatest, with cantrips reflecting this growth in power. Of course, that doesn't do crap to explain cantrips for half- or partial-casters like Eldritch Knights or Artificers. But I doubt anyone can do much better. [/QUOTE]
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