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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Iku Rex" data-source="post: 2649441" data-attributes="member: 752">When was that the example "I used"? You were talking about the "weak damage" from a wizard's attack. I pointed out that a wizard can easily deal more damage per attack than most fighters. Now all of a sudden I've committed myself to comparing single melee blows with high level spells?There's absolutely no reason why wraithstrike would be affected by SR. Inventing artificial "difficulties" is not going to make wraithstrike well-balanced. Right. SR (or magic/energy immunity) can prevent damage altogether. Even if a melee character can't beat the DR (and why is a wizard less likely to do so than a fighter?) that's only going to delay the opponent's defeat by a couple of attacks. Are you for real? I post a couple of lines demonstrating the damage of a single attack and all of a sudden I've "devoted my build to it"? It involves less than 20% of the characters wealth at 15th level, one feat, and at worst an ability score at 13. Yes, a melee focus is going to make you less good at blaster spells once you factor in the other obvious items, spells, feats and buffs you'll want. But for one thing you won't need those blast-spells much. Pointing out that an archer specialist fighter won't be that powerful with a 2d10 greatsword does not prove that greatsword damage can be safely increased...Stop trying to "prove" that a high level wizard allowed to unload his highest level spells on a vulnerable target is dangerous. That's not the issue. Melee characters should be compared with melee characters. And if said melee characters can fly, cast wizard protective spells and blast the occasional enemy then that's not a balancing factor in their favor. Oh great. Now you're trying to prove wraithstrike balanced by pointing out that my 50+ damage per hit example is sub-par compared to a character that can really take advantage of the spell.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> Like I said, I picked 15th level wizard because that's the first time you can get a persistent wraithstrike (8th level spell). I know that there are better "builds" than straight wizard for melee. However, in this case that wasn't important.If I had posted a real "build", you'd have seen that such a character can have decent hit points (or lots and lots of hit points as per Skip Williams' polymorph ruling), better saves, better AC and far better protections in general than a conventional melee fighter in a typical fight.  Let's see. 11 (BAB) + 3 (enhancement) + 16 (Str) -1 (size) = +29. I do believe that's an automatic hit against just about anything you'll encounter at CR 15. And it can be further improved with spells like heroism, greater invisibility/blink or some other buff spell. Seems like the option to trade attack bonus for damage might come in handy.  :\ (I'd like to see your example of a basic 15th level fighter with an attack bonus well beyond +29 with the same investment in gold.)Which calculation is it you're disagreeing with? 4x3=12 or 4x49=196? So if you were to say that a wizard is going to deal "weak damage" you'd be honest and admit to being wrong if someone pointed out that that's easily not the case? Good. You had me worried.</blockquote>

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