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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 911747" data-attributes="member: 3146">In 3e a hasted Tempest with all the TWF feats could make 9 attacks in one round before cleaving too. When you consider that he doesn't usually average more damage than a hasted greatsword wielder does on his 5 attacks, it doesn't sound so bad though.If you don't consider what the spells actually did or were or the opportunity cost of such prodigal spellslinging, 3 spells/round sounds impressive. However, assuming a 10th level wizard casting two fireballs and a quickened magic missile per round (which he can do for two rounds before he runs out of fireballs), he's still only doing an average of 88 points of damage on two failed reflex saves,  71 points of damage on one failed reflex save, 53 points of damage on two successful reflex saves (one if the target has evasion, and two failed reflex saves if the target has improved evasion), and 18 points of damage on two successful reflex saves against an evading target.Now, that's a lot of damage but a hasted, buffed, raging fighter/barbarian will do almost as much (74 points of damage/round against AC 20, no save for half) and can keep on doing it every round for 8 or 9 rounds.(The character in question is a 28 point buy Ranger 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Rogue 2/Temple Raider 2 with 18 strength (28 raging with an empowered bull's strength), power attack, weapon focus and specialization: falchion, and a +3 falchion--to keep things simple, I didn't add in his 2d6 sneak attack damage on any of the attacks or factor in the attack bonus from the partial charge in his Haste partial; to check the calculations go to <a href="http://www.public.asu.edu/~tarchon/munchkin.html" target="_blank">http://www.public.asu.edu/~tarchon/munchkin.html</a> I know that the character is optimized for damage but he isn't ridiculously optimized for damage (Fighter/Barbarian/Tribal Protector or Weapon Master with a greatsword or even straight up fighter 6/barbarian 4 would do better--in any case, the 10th level wizard under discussion is obviously optimized so we might as well compare apples to apples)When you compare the wizard to that character, his 3 spells per round don't look nearly so unbalancing.Of course, the quickened time stop takes a 13th level spell slot so what you're discussing is epic level not core rules.Given the confusion you're apparently in over Quicken spell, it's somewhat difficult to take this conclusion seriously. Why don't you try the 3.0e "nerf" that quickened spells take a slot four levels higher than the spell ordinarily would before calling for new ones. Believe me, it makes the game work much better.</blockquote>

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